Stagea Ecu Changeover/upgrade

[MyStag260]

Hey all,

Not entirely sure if there is a thread for stagea ECU talk, i know that there will be a million and one threads for Skyline ecu changeovers but wouldn't mind seeing who has done what with stagea ecu upgrades.

Currently looking at my options and the obvious answer is the Apexi Power-FC, but i also have a Wolf V4 in my sights... but really unsure can anyone offer some advice on what to buy and where i should get it fitted in Melbourne?

Cheers

[Xmetal]

You could try for a Microtech unit or an Autronic if you're feeling flush with the dollars.

[wolverine]

i have a powerfc (RS4S).

i would suggest looking at a remap as they seem to be the most economical and logical way to go, presuming like 90% of stagea owners you have an auto. the remaps weren't much of an option on R33/R34 based ecu's until recent times hence the lack of detail about them in forced induction. the issues Apexi have faced in japan and the relative scarcity of powerfcs for R33 GTS-t/R34GT-t means that other options have been invested in locally.

DrDrift would be the guru in melbourne?!!?

[MyStag260]

Well being the RB26 with a manual the Auto (gocart) stlye thing doesn't really bother me. I would really love an Autronic... but after speaking with them so many of the features they crap on about are things like antilag and launch control... i don't want any of that rubbish, i really just want something that will be able to be changed and be modified to take bigger turbos, injectors, boost etc and have the car run smooth right through the rev range without a deisel train amount of black sh!t coming out the back. Obviously im aware that the autronics/wolf/motec systems have a lot more mapping points and typically cost a kidney. Im not interested in doing internals, forgies and all that rubbish its a daily driver not a nasa luna module.

Cheers guys

[wolverine]

sorry i don't know how i missed your sig.

powerfc the best choice. straight swap will do everything you want it to do. no messing around with cutting and splicing into to the loom. all the cold start stuff loaded in from factory. much more. should be under $1500 installed tuned. Racepace seem to have the runs on the board for tuning.

Edited April 26, 2008 by wolverine

[rb26stagea]

I have a PowerFC in mine: it's ok.... Personally, I would (and probably will) fork out the extra$$$ for a full 3D computer (more than likely Autronic), but for what it costs: the FC is pretty hard to go past. For the record, I currently run what I believe you are talking about: cams, bigger turbos, fuel system, etc. I intend to upgrade the ecu only when I start the next phase of mods (looking for around 400awkw)...

In short, the FC should be sufficient.

[Jetwreck]

Don't know much about the 34 set up. But with the M35 I'm going Haltec...they have great new system's at a fairly cheap price....I have also found that they pick and choose there dyno guy's very well which is a big plus if you want to go to big HP.....I'm talking about the dyno guy's that are not hack's......there's alot BS that goes around when it comes to dyno's.

[MyStag260]

Hey micah if your car has those options on it and you think that all components are being controlled correctly and the mapping is suitable enough to make the car run nice and smooth and put power down well, then i think i might just have to go with the FC.

Regarding dynos i agree with Jetwreck there are some coyboys out there i remember trying to deal with AVO a while back with my GT4 and they just wouldn't play ball, charged through the nose for shoddy work. I am hearing that racepace is pretty good and aslong as they do good work i don't mind paying. Yudi got his tuned at another place up in northern melbourne and he recons it was pretty good might give them a call for a quote 2, anyone know of anywhere else that might be worth ringing?

[rb26stagea]

FYI: I am having my car retuned this week, as I'm pretty sure it is running way too rich, so I'll let you know how it goes...

But yes, I am pretty happy with the current setup, particularly given the relatively low cost: there is a hell of a lot to be said for a straight plug-in system!

[Duncan]

rb26stagea I don't understand what you mean about a "full 3d" computer and a PFC not being one.

PFC's main weakness would be a lack of mapping points compared to some other computers, but they are so damn easy and quick to tune that I don't understand why you would go anything else in a road car? unless you have an auto or one the engines they dont make PFCs for any more?

[rb26stagea]

rb26stagea I don't understand what you mean about a "full 3d" computer and a PFC not being one.

PFC's main weakness would be a lack of mapping points compared to some other computers, but they are so damn easy and quick to tune that I don't understand why you would go anything else in a road car? unless you have an auto or one the engines they dont make PFCs for any more?

From what I understand, the Power FC is not ideal due to the lack of mapping points at various throttle openings/engine loads, like you said. However, I run 2 boost settings, and was under the impression that you can't program multiple maps for different boost pressures into the FC, i.e. road fuel vs. Race fuel etc. Susequently, my car has been dyno tuned for high boost, which is used 5% or less of the time. So, the other 95% of the time, the boost has been lowered, but the tune stays the same: I run very rich. I realise that not all people will want to run multiple boost settings, but I do. If I am wrong, please correct me, as I would love to be able to retain the FC, and run both boost settings efficiently...

Of course, my other option is to just drop the boost a little on the high setting, and run the one boost level, but I like to have one for cruising, and one for serious driving...

*edit* I intend to get serios with modification in the Stagea now, and was under the impression that it was worth investing the extra time and money to ensure the prolonged life/efficiency of my engine. Please, advise me if I am incorrect: I am only repeating what I have benn told from numerous reliable sources, and my own experiences with owning a power FC

[MyStag260]

Well i was under the impression that the power-fc short comings were that the amount of mapping points is not as high as others. Secondly they only are a single map unit meaning you can't switch from one set of premapped settings to another. Where as the others can have multiple map settings. Also alot of the other units allow you to do away with the airflow metre plus they have antilag and launch control settings.

I have multi boost level switchability with my AVC-R and i have never changed it, i just leave it on the higher one and drive in a lower rev range normally and gas it into the high range occasionally.

Power-FC is the answer i think...

[wolverine]

if you are keen for multiple maps you could always invest in a datalogit.

although you can control boost with your right foot day in day out so a good tune should take care of day to day driving on the one boost setting.

if you are using race fuel etc then you could upload the higher state of tune from the datalogit in no time.

datalogits cost about USD$500 but with parity of the dollar it is pretty reasonable. i picked one up second hand recently for a bit cheaper.

this would also allow dalalogging and you could add a wideband and monitor or modify AFR's particularly handy on low load/cruise.

[Duncan]

yeah we use the datalogit to run 2 maps, and they are for high (1.2) and low (0.8) boost. But that is for race where we need to get 100% out of the tune.

For road use, a good broad tune will be fine at a range of boost settings - because boost just turns up as a different load point. As long as it wasnt a quick and dirty tune it will be fine on different boost levels

BTW datalogit is $500AU from the Oz distributor, Benson Motorsports. Stuart is on here as t01-00

[rb26stagea]

sounds like that's MY answer, then. Sorry to Hijack the thread, but how does it change between maps? do you have to physically switch it, or does it detect higher boost on its own?

[Lil_Bobby_260]

Well i was under the impression that the power-fc short comings were that the amount of mapping points is not as high as others. Secondly they only are a single map unit meaning you can't switch from one set of premapped settings to another. Where as the others can have multiple map settings. Also alot of the other units allow you to do away with the airflow metre plus they have antilag and launch control settings.

I have multi boost level switchability with my AVC-R and i have never changed it, i just leave it on the higher one and drive in a lower rev range normally and gas it into the high range occasionally.

Power-FC is the answer i think...

Power FC is definitely the answer...

[wolverine]

sounds like that's MY answer, then. Sorry to Hijack the thread, but how does it change between maps? do you have to physically switch it, or does it detect higher boost on its own?

more boost will use a different part of the map.

higher boost will equate with higher load so the intercepted cell (load is higher from top to bottom of the map, rpm is left to right) should be down lower on the map at the same rpm point.

changing the type of fuel would mean more timing advance (at the least) hence different maps for Duncan's car.

[unique1]

i would go power fc djetro, piss those afm's off and it cleans up the engine bay, and no need for upgrade afm's later, it will run the same as they have been widely used in WA and all the tuners say runnin afm's has 0 advantage when doing back to back testing on same setups.

PM 260rsstagea on the forums he just got one put in his 260rs and ask him his opinion on it

Edited April 28, 2008 by unique1

[Sydneykid]

For a road car I see no sense whatsoever in changing from the superior load sensing of AFM's, nothing even comes close. Tuning multiple throttle bodies with MAP sensors is a pain in the ass, even for a very experienced tuner. You are looking at 4 to 5 times the tuning cost because of the complexity and the painstaking load point by load point requirements. Even after such meticulous tuning the MAP sensor driven car still doesn't drive anywhere near as nice as the AFM driven one. I have driven/ridden in plenty of cars with MAP sensors as the primary load sensor, where the guys claim they are perfect and they truth is they never are. They always have issues, rough idle, poor transient response, hesitation, throttle position dead spots, load (power steering, air con, alternator) compensation problems etc etc. Sometimes minor, sometimes so bad I couldn't live with it for one hour of my life, let alone every day.

For a 100% race car, MAP sensor driven ECU's are fine, we use them all the time, but not on my road car.

Cheers

Gary

[unique1]

i have ridden in a few map sensor cars and as i said these changes from normal pfc to djetro are being done back to back on the same cars and they are perfectly fine, i couldnt pick the difference at all, i doubt everyone who has them would say they are perfect if they didnt idle, drove like shit etc, they get fuel economy and even some cases have picked up substantial power on bigger turbo setups.

i just think the afm's are one more thing that causes trouble later on when they are getting old.

I dont think Perth tuners would have installed any normal pfc's since the djetro come out from what ive seen around, they are obsolete (sp?) around here

As i said PM 260rsstagea and he will say the same thing and he has gone from stock ecu to pfc djetro and loves it from what i was told

just my 2c worth