Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hi guys

Do i rebuild my RB26 with forged internals and 2860-5s or do I go a little more crazy (and expensive) and go for a RB26/30 hybrid perhaps with 2860-10's (or GT-RS)?

I am aiming for ~270kw at the wheels initially after a tune, post rebuild. I will then chase 300-350 kw at the wheels later on (when my wallet is recovers sometime next century). I want headroom for up to 450kw down the track if I decide to go crazy. My rational is the engine is out, I may as well build it properly now and (hopefully) not have to worry about getting the engine out again.

I am deciding which way to go, bearing in mind I drive my car almost daily and I want to continue doing this.

I have been researching the 26/30 hybrid pretty thoroughly and I have been pretty impressed with the results I have seen. I like the idea of more torque at lower RPM and have no problem with the lower rev limit as this would hopefully limit dangerous oil pump wear.

What i'd really like to do is go for a ride in a built 26 and 30 to compare them. Anyone keen to take me for a ride in their built 26? Anyone done the RB30 conversion locally (on the forums)?

Any advice from people whom have built 26's or 30's would be greatly appreciated, especially anyone who has gone from a built 26 to a 30. I have only ever had my stock GTR setup :D , but like i said the engine is out now I may as well build it properly and then I have all the options.

Also you won't see me entering the hillclimb anytime in the next couple of months

Below is a copy of my entry in the post your engine failure thread.

This has been Heart and Wallet breaking. :)

GET RID OF YOUR CERAMIC TURBOS (especially if running higher boost).

Engine/Car: 1993 R32 GTR

Type of failure: Ceramic turbine failure leading to ceramic dust being blown through the engine (all cylinders have some dust), knackered rings, scratched/gouged bores and ceramic dust crushed into quench zone in cylinders 4,5 and 6. That's right, the block, pistons, rings and head are all damaged as well as one dead turbo.

Factors influencing the failure: Ceramic turbos well past their 'service'/replacement date. NO EXTRA BOOST (in my ownership at least)

State of tune of the engine: Dead stock standard engine. Highflow cat, kiakamoto 3.5inch exhaust, pipercross filter. Nothing special.

Suspension and tyres: Irrelevent.

Oil used and service interval: Mobil 1 every 5000km religiously.

General comments: An especially painful turbo/engine failure necessitating a full rebuit and new turbos, very expensive. My advice: don't run higher than 13psi on stock turbo's as this is the service limit according to the workshop manual. Also 'service' or replace at the 100,000 interval. I ran stock boost specifically to avoid this kind of failure but it still happened. Just get rid of the ceramic turbos if you can.

It should also be noted that my oil pump drive showed signs of significant wear... :O

post-37041-1225855250_thumb.jpg

post-37041-1225855314_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/243419-rebuilt-26-or-rb2630-into-r32-gtr/
Share on other sites

Well, thats definatly stuffed!

If no one in ACT has an rb30 bottom end i wouldnt mind taking you for a blast in mine. Full forged etc rb26/30 with HKS GT-RS's. But im in Sydney

Funny you mention the -10's, they're the turbos im going for if the GT-RS's dont get me what i want

Rebuild your RB26 with forged internals and 2860-5s. It will get you 330-350awkws safely and for a long time. Excessive mods costs more $$ in the short and more issues over the longer term. However,

1. if you are looking for the fastest qtr, do heaps of events and you have endless supply of money and/or

2. like to boast about your ride.

- then GO NUTS.

Edited by Sinista32
Well, thats definatly stuffed!

If no one in ACT has an rb30 bottom end i wouldnt mind taking you for a blast in mine. Full forged etc rb26/30 with HKS GT-RS's. But im in Sydney

Funny you mention the -10's, they're the turbos im going for if the GT-RS's dont get me what i want

Firstly, I may well take you up on that ride. I really want to get a good feel for the difference between the two combos so I can better judge the value for money factor.

So the -10's flow more than GT-RS's? I didn't realise that. Has anyone put twin -10's or GT-RS's onto a RB26/30?

Rebuild your RB26 with forged internals and 2860-5s. It will get you 330-350awkws safely and for a long time. Excessive mods costs more $ in the short and more issues over the longer term. However,

1. if you are looking for the fastest qtr, do heaps of events and you have endless supply of money and/or

2. like to boast about your ride.

- then GO NUTS.

I do acknowledge the additional risk and cost factor of the RB26/30 build and I am wary of reliability. Those that own or have experience with the RB26/30, have you had any more* issues than the RB26 (other than the initial install and tuning)?

I am *aiming* to have the car on the road for at least 10.5-11 months a year (note this would be a significant improvement on my current record). I have fixed a lot of the major issues - rear subframe included. The gearbox and transfer case are about the only things left to break... (touch wood).

I also have a motorcycle to fall back on.

Cost will end up being the determining factor.

That's very poo. When my ceramic exhaust wheel shattered it was nice enough to fall into the cat and not disturb anything else.

Apparently my engines bottom end is in very good condition and has never been opened up before and there was no damage to any parts or anything. But you never can tell these things without getting a good look!

I guess it all depends on how much money you have to play around with. I looked at the RB26/30 route and when I started to add it up it seemed to get REALLY expensive. Not that I necessarily went the cheapest way either. Like you when choosing I had the same problem, besides the R35 the only GTR I have ever been in is my own.

Firstly, I may well take you up on that ride. I really want to get a good feel for the difference between the two combos so I can better judge the value for money factor.

So the -10's flow more than GT-RS's? I didn't realise that. Has anyone put twin -10's or GT-RS's onto a RB26/30?

Haha yeah my first rb30 bottom let go cause i had a shit tune. Thats not happening again!

Value for money? Buy an rb20, they just dont die ;)

-10's are rated higher than GTRS's by quite a bit. Its quite a lot more enjoyable than the 2.6L bottom end, well IMO anyway - everyone has different opinions. Although no one that went in my car with the 3L bottom end didnt have a fun time. eg;

Yeah, the wet-road acceleration in 2nd and 3rd gear is best described as 'hilarious', at least thats the effect it had on us. lol

It's a fairly tractable engine- You can feel the torque curve really starting to swell just before 3500rpm, then it gets more serious at 3800, and goes absolutely manic from 4000... and flings the needle from there to 7000 in a blink while all four tires break traction in the wet :thumbsup:

It should be an epic thing in the dry; a real workout for the neck muscles. If it ever stops raining for more than 30 minutes at a time, that is =P

It's going to require an ECU change to run the last 5 or so pounds of boost that the turbo can run efficiently, but I reckon that, combined with cams and a better intercooler and some silicone lower hoses should see around 550rwHp (410rwkW) without too much trouble. That would only take the injectors to ~90% duty cylcle too, which leaves plenty of safety margin.

Time for that dry-sump setup now...

Got the obligatory shot of the manifold glowing tomato-red during some constant load tuning-

dynoday1wf1.jpg

I was definitely laughin in the car tonight and not from excitement. I said come back when it's dry and then I might stop trying to push my feet through the floor.

On the other hand there are some manic 2.6L's out there. At the end of the day you're taking the best approach to it, try everything before spending the dollars

Try them all, weigh up the dollars and enjoy what you end up with :)

I do acknowledge the additional risk and cost factor of the RB26/30 build and I am wary of reliability. Those that own or have experience with the RB26/30

Correct, I've no personal experience with the RB26/30 build. I beleive I read somewhere Scooby may have and will shed experience, if asked. There is also so much info on SAU on this config.

My experience is with the RB26 only on a standard rebuild meaning no 2.8 stroker (Nice, would have liked to do have done this at the time, didnt have the $$$$). The issues I expereinced are significantly more than you and others are aware of or may have been advised of. This is not the time or my thread.

My response to your initial post - IMO Forged pistons with the Garret 2860-5 or HKS 2530's.

I stand by my comment on cost and reliability.

Cheers

S!N

PS. My Skyline has not run since the initial install.

Edited by Sinista32

mine made 429 hp or 320 ish kW with a standard unbuilt bottom end cams an 2530's was boosting hard nice an early too

expired on a race track though an the rebuild time an money is harsh

Have a real good look at what you wanna do with the car n1 motors are really a fairly cheap option with factory reliability

am wondering if that may have been a better option for me may not be for you though I dunno

best a luck

Ill take you for a run in my 2.6 ... you will never want a forklift engine (RB30) again...lol.

there is a lot more mucking around getting a 30 fitted let alone getting it built "properly"

Edited by DiRTgarage
Correct, I've no personal experience with the RB26/30 build. I beleive I read somewhere Scooby may have and will shed experience, if asked. There is also so much info on SAU on this config.

My experience is with the RB26 only on a standard rebuild meaning no 2.8 stroker (Nice, would have liked to do have done this at the time, didnt have the $$). The issues I expereinced are significantly more than you and others are aware of or may have been advised of. This is not the time or my thread.

My response to your initial post - IMO Forged pistons with the Garret 2860-5 or HKS 2530's.

I stand by my comment on cost and reliability.

Cheers

S!N

PS. My Skyline has not run since the initial install.

Point taken. I am not rolling in $$$, not by any means. My GTR is my only car and I need it on the road most of the time. Also I have to keep in mind that the gearbox will not enjoy anything past 300-320 kw at the wheels in any case and I certainly won't have the money to replace the gear box anytime soon...

The extra expense, time and reliability question marks not to mention the practical limits to power (such as the gearbox) are making me really question the value of the RB26/30 over the forged internal RB26 for my case anyway.

Thanks Sin.

Ill take you for a run in my 2.6 ... you will never want a forklift engine (RB30) again...lol.

there is a lot more mucking around getting a 30 fitted let alone getting it built "properly"

Indeed, with a power curve like yours who needs an RB30 or a V8 for that matter...

Agreed, there are certainly more issues with getting the damn lump back under the bonnet (especially for a an R32) and I think for my initial and somewhat humble goals even a forged bottom end in the 26 is overkill but the engine is out so I may as well. The 26 certainly seems the safer, cheaper option.

If I get ambitious later on I can always call on you to do some crazy headwork :) .

Point taken. I am not rolling in $$$, not by any means. My GTR is my only car and I need it on the road most of the time. Also I have to keep in mind that the gearbox will not enjoy anything past 300-320 kw at the wheels in any case and I certainly won't have the money to replace the gear box anytime soon...

The extra expense, time and reliability question marks not to mention the practical limits to power (such as the gearbox) are making me really question the value of the RB26/30 over the forged internal RB26 for my case anyway.

Thanks Sin.

The nissan stuff is quite good...albeit the cast pistons. The engine i built for Stacey when she was racing the car was all Nissan except pistons and camshafts...made almost 470AWKW and was thrashed for 3 seasons of racing and countless dyno comps.

Its how they are bolted together thats more important than a wanky list of expensive parts.

The nissan stuff is quite good...albeit the cast pistons. The engine i built for Stacey when she was racing the car was all Nissan except pistons and camshafts...made almost 470AWKW and was thrashed for 3 seasons of racing and countless dyno comps.

Its how they are bolted together thats more important than a wanky list of expensive parts.

Yeah, except for the ceramic turbos (i'm still a bit grumpy about that)... The irony is that I was settled, all I ever wanted was 270AWKW on the standard engine, until it let go. Now i figure I may as well setup a good base for future mods and have the safety factor to really thrash it when I want to.

Well once its built I certainly don't want to be taking the engine out again...anytime soon at least...

Yeah, except for the ceramic turbos (i'm still a bit grumpy about that)... The irony is that I was settled, all I ever wanted was 270AWKW on the standard engine, until it let go. Now i figure I may as well setup a good base for future mods and have the safety factor to really thrash it when I want to.

Well once its built I certainly don't want to be taking the engine out again...anytime soon at least...

The point i was trying to make is you seem to be a little light in the folding stuff...right?

You dont need to spend mega bucks to build an engine that will perform and be durable.

Stacey's engine cost just under 4K to build and if we ran stock cams would have been 3K....ive seen engines built for over 5 times that amount ($20,000+) and have been a total waste of money.

Edited by DiRTgarage

my vote -

build it back up to normal with some forgies and cams...and then put some nicer bolt on's on. the only thing a rebuilt engine will give you is reliability - not power. the power comes from the bolt ons.

the engine rebuilt should be able to handle a bit. as paul said...build it up properly - but dont spend rediculous amounts of money on combo's etc...jsut more hassle than its worth...especially when you can get what you want from the 2.6

from there you wana do research on what combo of bolt ons......turbos, ecu, injectors, etc etc etc.

i would recommend you take a look at this thread RB26 dyno results. ....take a look at the third post - if you were to add on some turbos, a front mount, injectors...somple things...you should safely hit 300 +

as paul said...you dont need to spend massive money...jsut do it simple and you should be fine...dont mess around with un - nessacary things.

hope that made sense...and feel free to ignore me :)

I have decided on the back of plenty of experienced advice and analysis (cost, value for money, risk) that rebuilding the 26 is the way to go at the moment.

Thank you all for your input.

I'll always have the 30 bottom end sitting there for when my folks 33 GTS-t dies... :P

Now i just have to decide on things like sump baffles, the extent of oil control measures, do i need arp main or head bolts? and many little extras.

I have decided on the back of plenty of experienced advice and analysis (cost, value for money, risk) that rebuilding the 26 is the way to go at the moment.

Thank you all for your input.

I'll always have the 30 bottom end sitting there for when my folks 33 GTS-t dies... :P

Now i just have to decide on things like sump baffles, the extent of oil control measures, do i need arp main or head bolts? and many little extras.

Here's what i used on Stacey's engine...Tomei 1.2mm head gasket, ARP rod bolts, Nissan main and head bolts, Tomei oil restrictor, Nissan N1 oil pump, Nissan N1 water pump, Tomei sump baffle kit, Arias 86mm forged pistons and Tomei 260 deg 9.15mm lift camshafts.

When racing we used to put an extra litre of oil in it for insurance. The cams, baffle kit and N1 water pump are not entirely essential but are recommended.

Edited by DiRTgarage

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Back again. I returned to Japan in Jul/Aug to spend time with the car on my birthday and remind myself what all the sacrifice and compromise is for. It happened to line up with the monthly morning meet in Okutama, which I have been wanting to go to for a long time. It's a unique event at a unique spot with really rare, interesting, and quirky cars. It's where all the oldheads and OGs gather. The nighttime scene at DKF certainly has its place and should be experienced if you're into cars, but there's too much bad attention and negativity around it now. IMO the better time is Sunday morning at DKF or Okutama; it's more chill and relaxed. I'm glad I was finally able to go, but not sure it's worth the drive from all the way from Nagoya immediately the day before, unless I was already staying in Tokyo for the days right before the meet, because you have to wake up quite early to make it in time. Funnily enough though I didn't drive the car all that much this trip because it was just too damn hot. While there were zero issues and running temps were nominal and the A/C was strong, RBs already run crazy hot as it is. Sure, it took it all like a champ but something about driving these cars in the ridiculous heat/humidity bothers me and makes me feel like I'm asking too much of it. I'm just me being weird and treating the car like a living thing with feelings; I'm mechanically sympathetic to a fault. Instead I was mainly driving something else around - a KX4(silver) 2001 X-Trail GT, that I acquired in May. There's a few different flavors to choose from with Xs, but visually it's the Nissan version of the Honda CR-V. Mechanically it's a whole different story as this, being the top-trim GT, has an SR20VET mated to a four speed auto and full-time AWD! It was a very affordable buy in exceptional condition inside and out, with very low mileage...only 48k kms. Most likely it was owned by an older person who kept it garaged and well-maintained, so I'm really happy with how it all worked out. It literally needs zero attention at the moment, albeit except for some minor visual touch-ups. I wanted something quirky, interesting, and practical and for sure it handily delivers on all three of those aspects. I was immediately able to utilize the cargo and passenger capacity to it's full extent. It's a lot of fun to drive and is quite punchy through 1st and 2nd. It's very unassuming -in the twisty bits it's a lot more composed than one would think at a glance- and it'll be even better once I get better tires on it(yes, it's an SUV but still a little boat-y for my liking). So...now I have two golden-era Nissans in silver. One sports car and one that does everything else; the perfect two-car solution I think👍 The rest of the trip...I was able to turn my stressed brain off and enjoy it, although I didn't quite get to do as much as I thought. I did some interesting things, met some interesting people, and happened into some interesting situations however, that's all for another post though only if people really want to know. Project-wise, I went back to Mine's again to discuss more plans and am hoping to wrap that up real soon; keep watching this space if that interests you. Additionally, while working in the tormenting sweatbox that is the warehouse, I was able to organize most of the myriad of parts that my friend is storing for me along with the cars, and the 34 has a nice little spot carved out for it: And since it can get so damn hot in there, that made it all the more easy to remove all the damn gauges that have mostly been an eyesore all this time. Huzzah. I was standing there looking at the car and said 'f**k it'. The heat basically makes the adhesive backing on the gauge mounts more pliable to work with, so it was far less stressful getting this done. I didn't fully clean it up or chase the wiring though; that will happen once I have the car in closer possession. Another major reason to remove all that stuff is to give people less reasons to get in my car and steal s**t while it's being exported/imported when/if the time comes, which leads us to my next point... ...and that is even though it's time in Japan is technically almost up since it's a November car and the X would be coming in March, I'm still not entirely sure where my life and career is headed; I don't really know what the future looks like and where I'm going to end up. I feel there's a great deal of uncertainty with me and as a result of that, it feels like I'm at a crossroads moreso now than any point in my life thus far and there are some choices I need to make. Yes, I've had some years to consider things and prepare myself, however too much has happened in that time to maintain confidence and everything feels so up in the air; tenuous one might say. Simply put, there's just too much nonsense going on right now from multiple vectors. Admittedly, I'm struggling to stay in the game and keep my eyes on the prize. So much so in fact, that very recently I came the closest I ever have before to calling it quits outright; selling everything and moving on and not looking back. The astute among you will pick up on key subtext within this paragraph. In the meantime I've still managed to slowly acquire some final bits for the car, but it feels nice knowing there's not much left to get and I'm almost across that finish line; I have almost everything I'll ever want for my interpretation and expression on what it is I think an R34 should be. 'til later.
    • Thanks for that, hadn’t used my brain enough to think about that. 
    • Also playing with fire if they start to flow more air down low than what the stock twins can. It's not even up top you need to worry, it can be at 3000rpm and part throttle and it's getting way more flow than it should.
    • Any G40/1000 or G40/1250 results out there?  
    • You still want a proper tune on the stock ECU though. Stock tune + stock ECU with GT-SS/-9s is probably playing with fire if you're running more than stock airflow/power.
×
×
  • Create New...