Gtr Rally Car

[kjjeff]

Can some body point me in the right direction I am after information on using a R32 GTR as a rally car (dirt)

why dont people use these they are not that much bigger than a Evo/subi?

Can a 15inch rim fit over the standard brakes ? Rally tyres only in 15's

Cheers

Ian

[Angus Smart]

there is a Kiwi on the forum (sorry cant remember his name) who uses a gtst for dirt rallys.

[Eug]

just a gts i believe.

[Ant97GTR]

the only gtr rally car i've seen is the 33 gtr that did the pikes peak hillclimb...

[t01-100]

gravel + gtr = awesome rooster tails!

weight would be the main reason i'd say.

[Marlin]

32's have done Pikes Peak also, won the Production class one year I think too?

Murray Coote told me back in the early nineties when I posed him the question that weight was a major factor, as was the general complexity of the GTR in comparison to period cars. I think he said suspension travel might have also been an issue?

But the goalposts have kinda moved these days haven't they, even Evos and Sti's are north of 1500 kg now.

Maybe one would be ok, but I still reckon they'd be an understeerer, what with that big cast engine and diff hanging out the front. I'd LOVE to see and drive one though!

[GT-R LM]

There is a guy in japan that rallies a red genuwine nismo 400R... the nutcase

[giant]

i have always wanted to dirt rally an r32 gtr!!

i think it would be quite good, especially given the new class " run what you brung"

350 plus kw gtr ripping it up

[kjjeff]

32's have done Pikes Peak also, won the Production class one year I think too?

Murray Coote told me back in the early nineties when I posed him the question that weight was a major factor, as was the general complexity of the GTR in comparison to period cars. I think he said suspension travel might have also been an issue?

But the goalposts have kinda moved these days haven't they, even Evos and Sti's are north of 1500 kg now.

Maybe one would be ok, but I still reckon they'd be an understeerer, what with that big cast engine and diff hanging out the front. I'd LOVE to see and drive one though!

Complex as the center diff ??

Can you run the older style center diff in the 32 (Viscous)?? Would like to get a way from all the electronics.

Yer the weight may and may not be a limiting factor, in my searches they seam to be around 100kg heavy than the Rex/ Evo and only 100mm longer.

Travel could be the problem the Nissan GTRi had the same problems

Would love to find some body that has done one before.

Cheers

Ian

[benm]

Every time my mechanic took my gtr for a drive around the block to check things after servicing it he would always try to convince me to convert it into a rally car (he works on 1600's & 1200's rally cars all day long).

[ajrichar]

I have an old OLD Best Motoring VHS that has a yellow R32 GT-R rally car - as in full dirt rally car. It sounds.....AMAZING. There is in-car and outside footage of it sliding around a small dirt test area.

[Duncan]

Kel has her hand up to nav for a dirt 32

[screamin']

just a gts i believe.

Hey!!! Just a GTS, geez!

I've wondered about the GTR on gravel thing. I know a guy down south ran a GTS4 (ours are turboed) as a rallycar. Never really saw any results tho.

I would beleive that a GTR or GTS4 wouldn't be very competitive next to Evo/WRX's due to the heavy RB. Plus, the other two cars have had over a decade of development in this form of motorsport, so if your Evo doesn't do something right, there is a stack of info of how to sort it. For a Skyline there is pretty much none.

[Beer Baron]

Complex as the center diff ??

Can you run the older style center diff in the 32 (Viscous)?? Would like to get a way from all the electronics.

Yer the weight may and may not be a limiting factor, in my searches they seam to be around 100kg heavy than the Rex/ Evo and only 100mm longer.

Travel could be the problem the Nissan GTRi had the same problems

Would love to find some body that has done one before.

Cheers

Ian

there is no centre diff in any GTR. 32 33 or 34. they all run the same type of transfer case with a wet clutch pack type arrangement to send drive to the front. the only difference is in the way the computer controls the transfer case pressure and how fast it samples the data in the different mddels.

32 GTRs don't make good dirt rally cars for a number of reasons.

heavy = 1500kg

big cast iron block inline 6 up front not good for balance

possibly too much RWD bias

cannot fit 15 inch rims over the standard brakes, and you would really need bigger than standard brakes anyway for some serious competition

cost of running one as a dirt rally car would be pretty high.

not much available steering lock

it would be fun, and would look and sound awesome! but there is every chance you would be quicker for much less money in a wrx or evo on the dirt.

tarmac rallying is a whole other story though...

[screamin']

32 GTRs don't make good dirt rally cars for a number of reasons.

heavy = 1500kg

big cast iron block inline 6 up front not good for balance

possibly too much RWD bias

cannot fit 15 inch rims over the standard brakes, and you would really need bigger than standard brakes anyway for some serious competition

cost of running one as a dirt rally car would be pretty high.

not much available steering lock

it would be fun, and would look and sound awesome! but there is every chance you would be quicker for much less money in a wrx or evo on the dirt.

tarmac rallying is a whole other story though...

WRC cars run up to 16in wheels on gravel and they have some pretty awsome brakes, I would say far superior to factory GTR ones. You don't need hugh disks to have good brakes.

Cost of running any rallycar ( or motorsport in general) on gravelis expensive!

I don't beleive that WRX's have fantastic steering lock either, generally in a 4WD rallycar you are not that crossed up, straight is fast. RWD is a different story!

A heavy car can be a good thing, we have a lot of old VR4's out here rallying quite competitively, and their weight makes them very stable.

But yeah, the big cast irom block foward of the front wheels causes most of the issues. You need a well ballanced car for gravel, but a lot of this can be overcome with carefull suspension setups, crutial in 4WD's.

[Beer Baron]

hey mate, yeah I know WRC cars run 16inch rims on dirt/gravel but we are not talking a lightweight WRC car, with unlimited budget for suitable offset wheels to fit the required brakes with their latest tech calipers pads and rotors. we are talking a 1500kg 20yo 32 GTR. and for people with a budget, you will almost certainly need something better than the factory 296mm rotors and 4 pot callipers to pull the thing up. I know the dirt stuff may not be as hard on the brakes as the circuit/tarmac stuff but i still don't reckon the stock gear would be up to it. plus as alan said he wants to run 15inch rims so he can use the readily available tyres he wants. most off the shelf 15s will not fit over the stock 32 GTR brakes let alone any upgrade.

anyway considering how cheap and tuneable 32 GTRs are to purchase I would say if they were any good at dirt rallying there would be dozens and dozens out there by now.

like I said, it would look and sound awesome, but results wize you'd be better off following the pack and jumping into an evo or wrx as all the development has been done, parts available and results proven.

[iplen]

Also need to consider the effect of Turbo restrictors, For a single turbo you need to run a 34mm restrictor (Group N is 32mm), which means for each of the GTR turbos you need to run 17mm. Yes I am serious, and it cam straight from the mouth of an ARC Scruitineer of considerable knowledge, and an R32 is the exact reason I quizzed him about it. There was talk about allowing cars to run with no restrictors if they were running AUS Pump Fuel, not Elf etc but it is some time since I have heard anything on that front.

[Duncan]

Just one thing about that, the 2 restictors are 24mm not 17mm. Its the cross section that matters not the diameter and 2x24 is about the same as 1x32. Still a tiny hole for a GTR to breathe through and you won't make more than 250kw whatever you do with it. Exact same rules apply for Improve Production circuit racing.

[warps]

4WD rally car means you need restrictors

Will they let you run a >2L turbo AWD? What category would it fit into?

You can get 16" rally tyres. There are heaps of brand new Bridgestones for sale on Ebay for $200 a pair. Buy a dozen pairs and you're set for a few years of rallying

The stock brakes are heaps bigger than many other rally cars. A decent set of pads and airflow and you shouldn't have a problem in the dirt. Not like you're going to be regularly pulling up from 200kph

The ATESSA will need to be tweaked to give it more FWD bias to work effectively on dirt. Sad fact is that the next best thing to true AWD is FWD. RWD rally cars are a long way behind. Of course I still refuse to believe this in my RWD dinosaur, but them's the facts. (ever seen the stage times of a well driven almost bog stock Hyundai Excel? Scary!!)

Apart from whether it will be an outright contender or not, I reckon it would be great fun. My GTSt was very nicely balanced on dirt, so a GTR sould be just as easy to drive quickly, and make for great spectating.

There was a guy running a GTR at one of our local dirt sprints late last year. I didn't get his times, but he certainly looked quick (and I don't mean totally sideways action looking quick either)

250kW is enough to scare you in the dirt anyway.