Circuit Racing Rear Wings

[BezerkR32]

Hi Guys, looking to buy a rear wing for my circuit car as i have read on other threads that they are a must. Having troube sorting the autosalon stuff from the fuctional wings that will actually work. Any help from those that run a wing on there car would be much apreciated.

[Neil]

Stuart,,,I would think most people here wouldn't actually know a good wing from a bad one. Me included.

But from what little experience I have I would go for a dual plane fully adjustable one.

The autosalon ones are crapo,,,all they induce is loads too much downforce which equates to front understeer or no help at all.

The V8 supercar ones are little more than a compromise for parity.

I would suggest you go have a look at some top line national sports sedans and F3 cars.

I know these are Radical rears but they give you an idea of what is required.

Neil.

[S13Deviat]

LOL i just purchased one as well for the same objective.. to obtain some downforce on the rears.... BUT.... as pointed out, i need to re-enforce the mounting location otherwise the area will 'flex' under the pressure before transferring the downforce to the rears/tyres.....

That said mine is a jap band (Diecock-yes hilarious name) adjustable wing.... but functionality of it.. will wait and see.....

My noob 2c worth

[BezerkR32]

found this on just-japs web page. its twin aero-foil and looks to be adjustable on both planes, its cheap which makes me think it might be more for pretty. Ill have to have a look at it 2morro. Its also weird as its called a Drift-wing. I thought you would be looking to loose rear down force when drifting ie no wing, or i have no idea lol.

[Neil]

No Ando you nut-case. What I'm saying is if you load the rears up with too much down force you will lose front grip,,,hence understeer.

Reason I posted is at Wakefield in my old sports sedan,,,I ran without the front splitter and the big rear wing straight,,,the car still wanted to take-off through turn 1 which I would normally take flat.

I know this is an extreme case but it does give everybody an idea of what happens.

Neil.

[BezerkR32]

speaking of wings Neil, i remember that afternoon i came up to watch you race at OP and there was an old Toyota crown racing. It had a home made wing consisting of two pieces of form ply as the uprights and something else across the midle, the thing was quick, just looked funny. K-mart lol. but seemed to work.

No Ando you nut-case. What I'm saying is if you load the rears up with too much down force you will lose front grip,,,hence understeer.

Reason I posted is at Wakefield in my old sports sedan,,,I ran without the front splitter and the big rear wing straight,,,the car still wanted to take-off through turn 1 which I would normally take flat.

I know this is an extreme case but it does give everybody an idea of what happens.

Neil.

[Neil]

Stuart,,,I love Just Jap and they have looked after me for years but that is not a race cars spoiler.

Look at the end plates and then look at a race car end plates.

Yes thats a drift car spoiler that looks great but does very little. thats why it's a drift spoiler.

The old guy,,,nice old bloke in the crown and his mate in the alfa/rotor,,,,great old guy's that you might what to talk to. Shit I do.

Neil.

[hrd-hr30]

I can't see any of the off the shelf wings being terribly efficient. its much easier to create drag than downforce, and its quite difficult to create downforce efficiently - ie with minimal drag. you could easily loose more straight line speed than you pick up in the corners.

I haven't noticed (or maybe I just didn't pay any attention to) any threads on SAU about wings on track cars, but I have seen a thread recently on another forum of people saying they noticed a big difference in traction out of corners when they fit a wing to their cars, but they never seem to mention any lap time improvements to back up their 'feel' so the sceptic in me believes its all placebo effect.

My 2c is to concentrate on optimising mechanical grip first and only look at aero when that area is highly developed.

on a kind of related note, I've already had someone tell me the first thing I should do to my sil80 is add canards to the front bar to create downforce like on his car because it made a huge difference to its handling. I suggested that as his bar was held on by zip ties, the fact that it doesn't just get torn off suggests his canards aren't really generating much meaningful downforce. placebo effect...

[knore]

..My 2c is to concentrate on optimising mechanical grip first and only look at aero when that area is highly developed.

Yeah great advice, aero only really comes into play at higher speeds anyway.

Your better off increasing rear grip with either increased track, better suspension or better tyres.

Plus if your going to fit a proper rear wing, it has to be attached directly to the body which is quite a modification. Otherwise the boot travel just absorbs most of the downforce the rear wing is making.

[BezerkR32]

thanks guys, great advice given.

[Angus Smart]

I Have a single foil one made by Arc, it seems to do the job, looks ok and not too autosalon..

i know when i take it off and drive quickly the ass feels like its floating around and under brakes it gets a bit loose

i'm sure i should work out how to properly adjust it tho

[phunky_monkey]

I used to run a C-West wing on my car, but never on the track. I was defected for it years ago, so took it off and sold it to a mate of mine. His car is very similar to mine, and runs similar times around the track. I went for a spin in his car at Sandown and the rear end definately felt more planted on entry into turn 1, and I'm convinced enough to put one back on in conjunction with front and rear splitters.

I ended up buying another C-West Aluminium wing after unsuccessfuly searching for a V8 supercar item, and I'm going to have it mounted to the chassis. I'm sure it will have an effect, but whether it is a positive one I'll have to wait and see.

Old Wing

New wing

[kingscorp]

Wing is the last thing I will buy for my race car. I think the money can go into other areas that will give you more return in performance. Also will a wing make up for the loss of straight line speed.

They dont take effect unitil very high speeds. It will have to be mounted very high for it to work on a Skyline.

Undertray is a must, even rear undertray is good.

Ash

[NickR33]

Dane I'm not sure how effective the wing pictured (your old one) would be... the airflow over the back of the 180 would probably stay attached to the car until the very edge of the boot meaning no real flow over the wing (mostly under)... however if the wing was mounted higher than the roof it would catch the unattached airflow over the car

most serious circuit cars have the wing high up above the roofline of the car for this reason...

Edit: ah beat me to the punch re. height kingscorp!

[kingscorp]

Dane I'm not sure how effective the wing pictured (your old one) would be... the airflow over the back of the 180 would probably stay attached to the car until the very edge of the boot meaning no real flow over the wing (mostly under)... however if the wing was mounted higher than the roof it would catch the unattached airflow over the car

most serious circuit cars have the wing high up above the roofline of the car for this reason...

Edit: ah beat me to the punch re. height kingscorp!

Yeah close but no cigar!

The underside of the wing is just as important as the top side. You need both high and low pressure for a wing to work. High pressure on the top and low pressure on the bottom, therfore you get a push/pull effect. A aircraft works on the opposite principle.

This is why the wing needs to be high so you get air on both sides.

Ash

[phunky_monkey]

The mate I sold it to mounted it on his S14, so not as sloped as the rear hatch of my car which is why I think it works quite well on his car, and the reason why I bought this new one which will sit a lot higher than the old one

[kingscorp]

I removed the rear wing of my racecar because I didn't want to carry around the weight

[NickR33]

Yeah close but no cigar!

The underside of the wing is just as important as the top side. You need both high and low pressure for a wing to work. High pressure on the top and low pressure on the bottom, therfore you get a push/pull effect. A aircraft works on the opposite principle.

This is why the wing needs to be high so you get air on both sides.

Ash

isn't that what I said? (all the airflow under, none over) I'm fairly certain I understand how wings work;) the high/low pressure is caused by the difference in speed the air passes by each side of the wing due to its shape

yeah it would have been better on an S14 Dane, not perfect cos the air would have been pretty turbulent

[kingscorp]

isn't that what I said? (all the airflow under, none over) I'm fairly certain I understand how wings work;) the high/low pressure is caused by the difference in speed the air passes by each side of the wing due to its shape

yeah it would have been better on an S14 Dane, not perfect cos the air would have been pretty turbulent

Sorry, I miss read your post

[phunky_monkey]

I'm just hoping I don't put it on and turn the car into an understeering pig. I'd rather control the back end than deal with that