Circuit Racing Rear Wings

[NickR33]

Sorry, I miss read your post

lol I usually would have let it go but its too damn hot in here and the air con stopped being effective several hours ago ... its making me grumpy

...Melbourne is melting!

oh and didn't URAS have a pressure sensor thing he was using to measure the effectiveness of wings? I remember the thread but can't find it.... it was a few years ago I think

[phunky_monkey]

I recall that too Nick, would be good to see results if there ever were any.

[hrd-hr30]

Dane I'm not sure how effective the wing pictured (your old one) would be... the airflow over the back of the 180 would probably stay attached to the car until the very edge of the boot meaning no real flow over the wing (mostly under)... however if the wing was mounted higher than the roof it would catch the unattached airflow over the car

most serious circuit cars have the wing high up above the roofline of the car for this reason...

Edit: ah beat me to the punch re. height kingscorp!

isn't that what I said? (all the airflow under, none over) I'm fairly certain I understand how wings work;) the high/low pressure is caused by the difference in speed the air passes by each side of the wing due to its shape

yeah it would have been better on an S14 Dane, not perfect cos the air would have been pretty turbulent

Laminar/attached airflow creates less turbulence and therefore the wing would get more airflow over it on the back of the 180, not less. On the S14 where the unattached flow off the roofline would become disturbed/turbulent, a wing would work less effectively in the turbulent air and need to be higher to try and get in good clean/undisturbed air. That's why race cars mount wings high as possible/allowed under ther regulations.

[kingscorp]

If you turn it into an understeering pig it means you have increased rear grip, which is great. Now you have to increase front grip to get back the balance.

Then you have increased overall grip, mint!

[phunky_monkey]

I know, but I feel I'll have a harder time getting the grip in the front end than I will in the rear, so not wanting too much of a good thing if you know what I mean!

[NickR33]

Laminar/attached airflow creates less turbulence and therefore the wing would get more airflow over it on the back of the 180, not less. On the S14 where the unattached flow off the roofline would become disturbed/turbulent, a wing would work less effectively in the turbulent air and need to be higher to try and get in good clean/undisturbed air. That's why race cars mount wings high as possible/allowed under ther regulations.

what he said

[benm]

How effective are these style wings mainly seen on drag cars?

[Roy]

They clean up the airflow at the rear of the car and reduces drag

[hrd-hr30]

what he said

sorry, sounded like you were saying the opposite

the airflow over the back of the 180 would probably stay attached to the car until the very edge of the boot meaning no real flow over the wing (mostly under)...

(all the airflow under, none over)

it would have been better on an S14

[badhairdave]

As has been stated earlier in the thread, concentrate on mechanical grip first, then start playing with aero.

I've said it on a few different forums when this topic pops up (and generally get ignored): If your car isn't balanced without a wing then you are really just masking a problem by adding one, rather than fixing the issue and then moving forward by adding aero.

Personally i wouldn't add more than a stock style wing without looking at front splitters and decent front aero.

[evil_weevil]

Excuse my n00bness.....again...

But when people say front splitters - how does this help? and any pics or info?

Cheers!

[BezerkR32]

yeh, this is the way im going to proceed. im shore all you boys will help me with set-up. if it gets too hard well put the wing on. Definately have other things to spend the cash on. Dane, where did you get the wing and if you dont mind saying how much?

As has been stated earlier in the thread, concentrate on mechanical grip first, then start playing with aero.

I've said it on a few different forums when this topic pops up (and generally get ignored): If your car isn't balanced without a wing then you are really just masking a problem by adding one, rather than fixing the issue and then moving forward by adding aero.

Personally i wouldn't add more than a stock style wing without looking at front splitters and decent front aero.

[benm]

Chris:

It's basically a flat piece that sits under the front bar as low to the ground as possible and acts like a wing sucking the car to the ground. You see them on the V8Supercars or John's 300ZX. Many race cars have them the entire length underneath the car, like an F1 car hence why they can drive upside down.

[S13Deviat]

No Ando you nut-case. What I'm saying is if you load the rears up with too much down force you will lose front grip,,,hence understeer.

LOL i am nuts .. but i aint gonna generate enuff speed in the S13 to worry about loosing grip

Yeah great advice, aero only really comes into play at higher speeds anyway.

Your better off increasing rear grip with either increased track, better suspension or better tyres.

Thats exactly what i meant.... thus why i am considering my purchase was in vain as i want the functionality of my boot, so cant fabricate a mount to avoid the boot 'flex'

Excuse my n00bness.....again...

But when people say front splitters - how does this help? and any pics or info?

Cheers!

Sucks the car to the ground....

image

Lol at car thou!!! Its the black thing at bottom of bumper....

[Roy]

Stick your arm out the window at 60km/h. If the wing has enough surface area then they can start to produce a normal force pretty early, Hence why many are adjustable so you can tweak them for different average speed tracks

[BezerkR32]

plan on doing the front bar, but only allowed to sheet to the rear edge of the front bar from what i understand.

Chris:

It's basically a flat piece that sits under the front bar as low to the ground as possible and acts like a wing sucking the car to the ground. You see them on the V8Supercars or John's 300ZX. Many race cars have them the entire length underneath the car, like an F1 car hence why they can drive upside down.

[S13Deviat]

Stick your arm out the window at 60km/h. If the wing has enough surface area then they can start to produce a normal force pretty early, Hence why many are adjustable so you can tweak them for different average speed tracks

True true but how does one retain standard boot usage and remove the flex of a boot under 'load'/downforce. Only thing i can think of is an aluminium frame that you bolt to the underside of the boot and wing... then has 'feet' measured up exactly to sit on the base of the boot floor creating a brace as such..... meh... seems all too hard for little gain...

[Roy]

There are several ways. For a Skyline the easiest way it to make sure the swing of the boot is rigid to the lock or catch and make sure the spoiler is located near the knuckle on the back of the boot as that is where its most rigid. Or you can drill holes in the boot and mount a bracket of the back of the beaver panel so that when you close the boot the mount sits proud of the boot, then you just throw on the upright and blade

There are a few other ways but they add to the complexity of getting the thing open and closed

[phunky_monkey]

True true but how does one retain standard boot usage and remove the flex of a boot under 'load'/downforce. Only thing i can think of is an aluminium frame that you bolt to the underside of the boot and wing... then has 'feet' measured up exactly to sit on the base of the boot floor creating a brace as such..... meh... seems all too hard for little gain...

That seems to be a good way to do it mate, see below:

Stu, I bought my C-West from URAS on here a few years ago, and I got it for around $300 from memory. They pop up on the forums every now and then, but I think this version is the best of the aluminium ones, with a nice big plane and good, solid uprights.

Chris: This is a front splitter on a 180 that I'm planning on copying for my car, with the addition of NACA ducts to it to aid airflow and help keep the car cool:

[NickR33]

sorry, sounded like you were saying the opposite

I was saying the opposite... what you said made more sense! I was trying to quietly bow out of the conversation