Take This Zr1 Fans

[SkyDragon]

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-09/06-14...orvette-Z06.htm

amazing what some exhaust pipes and a little boost can do.

[Owgasm]

ZR1 still looks like it is that little bit faster..

[bnr#@]

Haha, crazy russians!!!

[bigslick]

On the second run the ZR-1 hung back and was moving faster when they nailed it but the GT-R still held it off.

[Col-GTSX]

OK, I have two problems with this video...

1. The ZR1 vet absolutly smashs the ZO6 in real life... (stock vs stock)

So how did the ZO6 camera car even come close to keeping up with the ZR1???

2. Also the ZR1 in the US is similar money to a GTR so this only shows their on the same par once you modify the GTR...

i.e. you have to spend more money to get a GTR to beat the ZR1...

Either way, the video shows very little...

[Birds]

Agreed^

I'm sick of these cars being compared, as despite the obvious contrasts (market price and performance), they are actually very different cars IMO.

Besides, it's all about the ACR Dodge Viper these days!

P.S. It's amazing what pulley kits can do to superchargers

[Max_ST-R]

OK, I have two problems with this video...

2. Also the ZR1 in the US is similar money to a GTR so this only shows their on the same par once you modify the GTR...

i.e. you have to spend more money to get a GTR to beat the ZR1...

Either way, the video shows very little...

Hey Col-GTSX ,The Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 Costs USD $104,920 and the Nissan GT-R USD $80,790 or an extra $3K for the Premium version. For what ever reason the GT-R had a $6K price rise in the USA a few months back, so for a while it was around the $75KUSD mark. $24-28K in Australia is not that much but $24,000USD in the states is the price of a new Ford Mustang V6 Premium and only a little shy of a Mustang GT which is $27K USD.

Secondly, I don't think anyone doubts the Corvette ZR-1, holds a straight line in -gear acceleration advantage it has a 6.2l SUPERCHARGED V8 and it is 250kg lighter!. When the ZR-1, wins a major event Like a Targa or rally event then we'll see. At the end of the day you can add another 100hp and you will be able to exploit every single hp, in a Zr-1 , anymore power and it will probably become a widow maker, if it isn't already.

[Birds]

And the R35 has a dual clutch paddle shift gearbox? Plus all wheel drive? I can keep listing the "advantages" if you like?

ZR-1 topped the R35's time around the Nurburgring...so to hold it in need of winning an event (particularly given its youth), to prove itself a worthy contender against the R35 is somewhat unnecessary. At the end of the day the R35 was made with alot more compromise than the ZR1. That's where the ZR1 wins out when you are comparing performance, both in a straight line and around the corners. As has been said in the other threads, the R35 was designed so that anyone can go fast in it and do their grocery shopping in the same day...the ZR1 is just shy of a race car. Comparison is just silly.

[Col-GTSX]

Hey Col-GTSX ,The Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 Costs USD $104,920 and the Nissan GT-R USD $80,790 or an extra $3K for the Premium version. For what ever reason the GT-R had a $6K price rise in the USA a few months back, so for a while it was around the $75KUSD mark. $24-28K in Australia is not that much but $24,000USD in the states is the price of a new Ford Mustang V6 Premium and only a little shy of a Mustang GT which is $27K USD.

Secondly, I don't think anyone doubts the Corvette ZR-1, holds a straight line in -gear acceleration advantage it has a 6.2l SUPERCHARGED V8 and it is 250kg lighter!. When the ZR-1, wins a major event Like a Targa or rally event then we'll see. At the end of the day you can add another 100hp and you will be able to exploit every single hp, in a Zr-1 , anymore power and it will probably become a widow maker, if it isn't already.

I said, this video shows very little...

So i dont mean to attack you so take this as straight talk...

If your paying $105k USD for a ZR1 than you are the biggest fool on earth... Yes the RRP is 105k on their website but as you know the US market is in such a bad way you can pick up a ZR1 at the moment of change from 80k... Tis true... That said, any imported cars like the GTR are holding their price as sales on these are subject to the japanese market not the US market, so in short this puts them on the same playing field in price... Hence my original comment...

Side track, a family member was in the US in Jan til May on work... Was going to rent a car, basic car...

Was cheaper to buy a brand new Chevy Aveo driveaway than to rent one for 4 months...

Their so despirate to move new cars, they have hundreds of thousands in holding yards all over the country...

Secondly, the ZR1 and GTR dont race in the same categories they are two different cars... Im not saying one is better than the other, I never tryed to compair them...

I simply said the video shows nothing (truthful)...

Infact you wanta take it there, ok the ZR1 should toast the GTR easily in a straight line but I refrained from mentioning it and just said how did the ZO6 keep up...

You said it yourself, it has more power and weights a fair bit less... So how to propose the GTR and ZR1 are side by side over on a rolling start???

Think about it... The video tell us nothing...

Like I said before...

/rant ends

Hey I got an idea lets compair apples to oranges...

[Owgasm]

Hey I got an idea lets compair apples to oranges...

They are both fruits.

[typevu]

That is a tough choice - I'd say an Orange is better when it hasnt gone too soft and is seedless. Otherwise its easier to pick up a good juicy crunchy Apple than it is to get a real good perfect Orange.

[Birds]

That is a tough choice - I'd say an Orange is better when it hasnt gone too soft and is seedless. Otherwise its easier to pick up a good juicy crunchy Apple than it is to get a real good perfect Orange.

Have to agree with you on this. Apple is the convenient fruit, you can just bite into it (maybe after a wash or a shirt polish). There's no need to peel it like you have to an orange. Orange is more of a picnic fruit...you prepare to eat it, you plan for it. That said, the rewards are great. It's just that, if you were to carry either one in your glovebox, the apple wins out because you can satisfy hunger spontaneously. I have no doubts the orange would be quicker around a track though.

Comparing these fruits is pointless anyway, it's like comparing ZR1's to R35's.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Birds

[ras1983]

...

Comparing these fruits is pointless anyway, it's like comparing ZR1's to R35's.

Lol, gold.

[Max_ST-R]

I said, this video shows very little...

So i dont mean to attack you so take this as straight talk...

If your paying $105k USD for a ZR1 than you are the biggest fool on earth... Yes the RRP is 105k on their website but as you know the US market is in such a bad way you can pick up a ZR1 at the moment of change from 80k... Tis true... That said, any imported cars like the GTR are holding their price as sales on these are subject to the japanese market not the US market, so in short this puts them on the same playing field in price... Hence my original comment...

Side track, a family member was in the US in Jan til May on work... Was going to rent a car, basic car...

Was cheaper to buy a brand new Chevy Aveo driveaway than to rent one for 4 months...

Their so despirate to move new cars, they have hundreds of thousands in holding yards all over the country...

Secondly, the ZR1 and GTR dont race in the same categories they are two different cars... Im not saying one is better than the other, I never tryed to compair them...

I simply said the video shows nothing (truthful)...

Infact you wanta take it there, ok the ZR1 should toast the GTR easily in a straight line but I refrained from mentioning it and just said how did the ZO6 keep up...

You said it yourself, it has more power and weights a fair bit less... So how to propose the GTR and ZR1 are side by side over on a rolling start???

Think about it... The video tell us nothing...

Like I said before...

/rant ends

Hey I got an idea lets compair apples to oranges...

If what you are saying is true that Zr-1 is being sold for $25K USD under RRP and the GT-R is selling at full retail then it shows the market has determined that the GT-R is a more highly valued vehicle ...but I'd love to see a advertising or report that says new ZR-1 are changing hands for $25K under the list price...sounds a little far fetched to me...but anything is possible.

[Birds]

That's not really true...it has more to do with America's economic state than the perceived market value of the car. New car sales in America have turned to shit no matter what make. The reason it affects the domestics more than imports is because local manufacturers are dependant on making sales in America. Importers, not so.

[Max_ST-R]

Birds, sorry mate but I have been in the motor industry for 15 years and it doesn't matter whether a car is local or domestic as far as discounting goes. You are right that regardless of make, the market is crap, however, if Nissan dealers can still get full retail for the GT-R and the Chev dealers have to gut $25K off the rrp to shift stock then this shows the market is WILLING to pay top $$ for the GT-R and not so much for the Vette. Golden rule in the car industry " a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay" - write that down

You need to remember that has horn as the ZR-1 is (i actually like it alot), it's still a Chevy, with Chevy build quality and the crappy Holden Epica interior. It's also 2 seats and rwd (not always ideal as it snows in many parts of North America during winter) The Nissan GT-R does have the perception of a higher quality car (which it is), more technologically advanced and very accessable high performnce in all conditions...and it's got a back seat and boot...and it probably turns more heads than the more common Corvette. Good market or not.

Give you another example, the VX HSV GTS 300kW in 2001. $94K plus on-roads. It's performance exceeded most new cars on the market...but at the end of the day it was still a Holden and I know dealers who were throwing ina free new Barina to try and sell these things not to mention discounts of nearly $20,000. Now 2001 were BOOM economic times...but the market could not see the value of a car that was made and built like a Commode and pay $100K on the road...even if it was the fastest car about.

[Birds]

Don't start talking experience in the motor industry because I will win out on that one I can assure you.

The R35 is a different case, it's not a regular import and thus discounting rules don't apply. It's not just a Pulsar, it's a niche market. They are in demand worldwide. Nissan can hold onto full retail for the R35 because if demand in America dries up they will build and ship them elsewhere. ZR1 is a locally produced and sold car - they have nowhere to go. With price decrease across the GM range and economic uncertainty, of course dealers will try to push them out the door with the rest of their cars. But would you please show me the evidence of this happening? Because to my knowledge the ZR1 was limited production, distributed to only the top selling GM dealerships who had no issues taking orders on the RRP. If there is a price drop on the ZR1, it is not in response to the R35, it is in response to the rest of the local market. Because market reseach has it that the US demographic does not give a shit about turbocharger fuel economy or AWD technology or the kiddy seats in the back of the R35...they never have. If it were the case, demand would be for just that and GM/Ford/Dodge would respond accordingly by building cars identical to the Japanese. They don't. People in the US will always be willing to pay top dollar for the R35 because it is rare and different. Let's face it, there are alot of Corvettes on the road and no matter how special the ZR1 may be, it is still another Corvette. This does not necessitate the car being a better performer or a better package in any way. The R35 has a niche of it's own as far as America is concerned. For the same reason we can ship a Clubsport to England and have Vauxhall call it a VX-R with a premium price tag, despite all manner of similarly priced cars over there that perform just as well if not better.

Yes and the HRT 427 was also going to be just a Holden (for the pleasure of a couple hundred thousand) but all orders were pre sold before the thing even went into production. Unfortunately never built, it still had those orders and the customers had no issues with it being a Holden. Now we have the W427 which has already sold out on pre-orders and this is just a Commodore with a 7 litre V8 and a $150,000 price tag. These examples make the failure of the undermarketed and all-too-quickly superseded VX GTS 300 somewhat irrelevant as far as overpriced vehicles are concerned.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Birds

[Col-GTSX]

Ummm firstly lol... @ compairing apples to oranges... my hat comes off to you guys... made my afternoon...

Max_STR, the vett's are hard enough to sell in the good time... But any chev is under a fire sale at the moment to try and turn stock into cash... The longer these cars sit in yards the more despirate GM are to turn the stock... There is no worse debt than to have 100,000 cars sitting gathering dust 12 months after they were made...

The whole brand new vechicle market in the US is almost at a stand still...

See the GTR can hold its value as its almost built to order... There are so few GTR's going to the US from Japan (number of vechicles vs population) and they selling all of them before they land (similar to the Australian GTR market)... So why discount something they cant get enough of...

Make sence???

PS> Bird, The W427 was limited to only 427 units built... So it became an instant collectors item hence the $150k price tag was never a problem...

Max_STR, Also im unsure about this VX GTS you speak off... It must have been an aftermarket walkinshaw build or something... As HSV never directly marketed the car via dealerships, similar to the current "super clubby" or the old VS model called the "SV5000" which came in yellow only... All built by HSV and then supp'ed up by pro-torque aka walkinshaw

[Gibbo_R35]

VS model called the "SV5000" which came in yellow only... All built by HSV and then supp'ed up by pro-torque aka walkinshaw

If I am not mistaken it was the VS GTS and the Blue Printed GTS-R that came in yellow. The SV5000 came in British Racing Green.

I could be wrong but I don't think so.

Cheers

[Max_ST-R]

Don't start talking experience in the motor industry because I will win out on that one I can assure you.

The R35 is a different case, it's not a regular import and thus discounting rules don't apply. It's not just a Pulsar, it's a niche market. They are in demand worldwide. Nissan can hold onto full retail for the R35 because if demand in America dries up they will build and ship them elsewhere. ZR1 is a locally produced and sold car - they have nowhere to go. With price decrease across the GM range and economic uncertainty, of course dealers will try to push them out the door with the rest of their cars. But would you please show me the evidence of this happening? Because to my knowledge the ZR1 was limited production, distributed to only the top selling GM dealerships who had no issues taking orders on the RRP. If there is a price drop on the ZR1, it is not in response to the R35, it is in response to the rest of the local market. Because market reseach has it that the US demographic does not give a shit about turbocharger fuel economy or AWD technology or the kiddy seats in the back of the R35...they never have. If it were the case, demand would be for just that and GM/Ford/Dodge would respond accordingly by building cars identical to the Japanese. They don't. People in the US will always be willing to pay top dollar for the R35 because it is rare and different. Let's face it, there are alot of Corvettes on the road and no matter how special the ZR1 may be, it is still another Corvette. This does not necessitate the car being a better performer or a better package in any way. The R35 has a niche of it's own as far as America is concerned. For the same reason we can ship a Clubsport to England and have Vauxhall call it a VX-R with a premium price tag, despite all manner of similarly priced cars over there that perform just as well if not better.

Yes and the HRT 427 was also going to be just a Holden (for the pleasure of a couple hundred thousand) but all orders were pre sold before the thing even went into production. Unfortunately never built, it still had those orders and the customers had no issues with it being a Holden. Now we have the W427 which has already sold out on pre-orders and this is just a Commodore with a 7 litre V8 and a $150,000 price tag. These examples make the failure of the undermarketed and all-too-quickly superseded VX GTS 300 somewhat irrelevant as far as overpriced vehicles are concerned.

Birds, if you look back it was actually COL-GTS-X who claimed that ZR-1's were being flogged for $25K under the RRP, I never said that it was! I actually said, there is indeed a $25K USD difference between the RRP of the GT-R and the ZR-1 in the USA after COL-GTS-X claimed they were effectively THE SAME price due to Chev dealers slashing ZR-1 prices.

I then said IF this were to be the case, then it's market forces at play. Other than that we seem to agree that the GT-R has a different appeal to the ZR-1. I actually asked COL-GTS-X to forward me some kind of report or evidence that the ZR-1 is being discounted to GT-R levels.. but so far I have not seen anything to suggest this.

As for the HRT 427 and W427..have a closer look, the W427 was to have a maximum of 427 built...but production has stopped at 200..why? Becuase it is still a Commode and the market is extremely limited. I know HSV 'sold out' the first production run but it was 40-50 cars!. Sure you'll get a handful of diehards...but that doesn't last, that's the difference between a quality car like the GT-R and a Tuppaware Commodore. Remember the VT2 and VX HSV GTS 300's WERE limited production models and after an early rush of a handful of enthusiast red Lion buyers they died in the arse and HARD!.

As for my automotive experience, 15 years and counting...started out in retail but nowadays I deal directly with alot of manufacturers , including Nissan...but that's about all I can say on that subject!