Hakuba Or Niseko For Boarding...

[bryno]

Hey people,

Understand this is a car forum.. but I know a lot of people head over to Japan (or live there) and try to get some snow with their car fix, so I'm looking for some opinions if possible.

I went to Niseko / Hirafu for a week or so during the 08 season for snowboarding, and will be heading back to Japan again for the 2010 snow season. Has any one been to both Hakuba and Niseko and/or can offer some insight in to which would be good to visit towards the end of January?

So far I've found that people have said Hakuba is warmer, has less powder and is occasionally icey, whereas Niseko (and from past experience) was pretty bloody crazy powder wise but visibility and weather were pretty average some days.

At the moment I'm pretty set on heading back to Niseko just for the awesome snow, but if any one can offer any reason to go to Hakuba over Niseko then I'd love to hear it. Night life isn't a huge deal, would be cool to head out one or two nights I guess but it's not the reason we're going.

If any one knows of any semi decent apartment style accommodation for 4/5 people that doesn't break the bank that'd be awesome too!

Main reason I want to head there during Jan is for the TAS as well (token car reference).

Cheers

[Mr. Keets]

Hey Bryn

I did TAS last year then spent 5 days at Hakuba...havent been to Niseko though. Hakuba was a 4hr trip from Shinjuku on the train, station stops next to the main drag - plenty of buses, everything in town was walking distance with the hotels and chalets a 5 minute drive then another 5 minutes to the slopes.Theres a good supermarket ( good range of booze) in town along with a laundrymat, Lawsons and the rest of the necessary stuff. We stayed in a hotel and the only met a handful of Aussies, there are plenty of little restaurants and bars around. Mid week it was almost deserted, even on the weekends it was quiet...lined up for a lift maybe half a dozen times. Weather wise...we got what looked like almost a metre of snow the night we arrived...even 3 dyas without any decent fresh snow I wouldnt have called the conditions icey. Ski patrol were pretty cool considering the reputation in Jp. From what I hear Hakuba is less hecktic than Niseko

[akeenan]

niseko hands down!

[elrodeo666]

If you want the steeps then Haka's is th go!! If you want guaranteed snow then Niseko is the go.

I came to live in Japan for the snow and know it better than I know me own arsehole, thats why I've been stuck in the frozen hellhole hokkaido.

Hakuba has awesome terrain, the backcountry is fantastic but be warned avalanches are a plenty out there, people die so make sure you know your shit!!

As for just punting around the mountain its a great ski area but dont go ducking ropes like u would in Niseko as ski patrol will take your pass if you go in off limit areas.

Since yo have been Niseko before you know the place can dump and dump and dump. It has its own little weather microcosm going there and will always have the best snow in the country.

Early jan can be hit and miss with the snow in Hakuba and for bang for buck and guaranteed snow then niseko is the go.

Honestly the last few seasons have been shit here in Niseko,this last winter I have never seen it rain so much in 10 winters but summer looks like its back to normal, been lots of rain and coolish temps so looking good for return to normal winter patterns and big snow!!

If you have the luxury of holding off on booking your trip until the last minute and thus being able to see how the winter is panning out in Hakuba and if good I'd go there for somewhere new to ride. If your after accomo try Snowbeds ( snowbedsjapan.com ) goog guys to stay with and reasonable prices.

Why dont you try escape the hordes of touro's hitting Niseko and do a bit of a Hokkaido road trip. Almost all mountains can be accessed by train or bus and theres a hell of alot of better and less crowded places to ride.

Shoot me a pm if you want some info.

heres a taste of NOT Niseko..

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tKMdVDOM8

that link doesnt seem to work so do a google on icon 6 : (the colon) trailer

Edited July 23, 2009 by elrodeo666

[bryno]

Thanks for the info people.

Hakuba is definitely tempting but I didn't really mind the crowds at Niseko.. was no where near as bad as a season in Canada so on the odd chance we had to wait a couple of mins for a lift it didn't really bother us. Then again, nothing like being able to jump straight back on a lift without waiting.

I'd heard differently about the ski patrol in Hakuba.. apparently really strict.. for good reason though I guess if there is a high avalanche risk. Pretty happy with normal back country stuff though without having to duck ropes, haven't done any avalanche courses or anything so I'd probably die. Good to hear there is a Lawsons there though.. their crispy chicken is so damn good haha

That icon 6 video looks mad.. If we had more time, money and could actually speak more japanese than asking 'whats your phone number' then a road trip would be amazing. I might send you a pm though Mark, wouldn't mind finding out about a couple of other places.

[Sillabaa]

Hey people,

Understand this is a car forum.. but I know a lot of people head over to Japan (or live there) and try to get some snow with their car fix, so I'm looking for some opinions if possible.

I went to Niseko / Hirafu for a week or so during the 08 season for snowboarding, and will be heading back to Japan again for the 2010 snow season. Has any one been to both Hakuba and Niseko and/or can offer some insight in to which would be good to visit towards the end of January?

So far I've found that people have said Hakuba is warmer, has less powder and is occasionally icey, whereas Niseko (and from past experience) was pretty bloody crazy powder wise but visibility and weather were pretty average some days.

At the moment I'm pretty set on heading back to Niseko just for the awesome snow, but if any one can offer any reason to go to Hakuba over Niseko then I'd love to hear it. Night life isn't a huge deal, would be cool to head out one or two nights I guess but it's not the reason we're going.

If any one knows of any semi decent apartment style accommodation for 4/5 people that doesn't break the bank that'd be awesome too!

Main reason I want to head there during Jan is for the TAS as well (token car reference).

Cheers

niseko hands down! i'm going back for a week and a half in japan, best snowboarding mountain, well on par with switzerland but thats too fkn exxy these days.

[Owgasm]

Curiosity, those that did the trip over to Niseko, what was that cost?

Friends and i are heading down to NZ - Coronet Peak for a week.

Want to compare and know for future trip.

Cheers

[bryno]

Depends where you stay and if you want a luxury-spec holiday..

Can get flights to Tokyo return for around $950-$1400, flights to Sapporo for a few hundred again. Bus to Niseko from the airport about $70.

Accommodation can be had for around $100-$150 a night p/p for a self contained apartment with 4 people (fairly good apartment).

Ski passes around $60 per day depending on exchange rate.

Last season (this year) the exchange rate was terrible so living expenses were a hell of a lot higher for people from Aus, but the year before the rate was around 100Y/1AUD so everything was very affordable. Meals for around $10-$20.

Really dependant on the exchange rate obviously and haven't really compared closely with NZ but hope that helps a bit...

[elrodeo666]

Do a bit of a google search on accomodation companies as this year everyone is slashing accomo prices and theres some good early bird deals on. You can get accomo for $50 p/p for share accomo.

I'm hooked up in the business up there so if you want some info give us a pm.

Getting there by bus from Chitose is a piece of piss, get the Niseko bus or most accomo companies have a pickup service.

Dont be fooled into going there in december..all the companies bullshit how theres great riding in december..in 9years+ of living and ridint there only once can I remember a good december. if your used to riding OZ, well it will look like Mecca. Honestly best snow is from mid Jan thru to end of Feb/early march..there can be awesome riding all thru march and april when crowds are gone and plenty of snow and weather great!!

Like I said have a good suss around the accomo companies in Niseko for deals as prices have been slashed from last year due to economic situation.

[yogi000]

hey guys,

i'm thinking of heading over to japan in feb for a ski trip.....should still be good coverage right? Do you need to fly to niseko or can u train it?

also, is it worth taking your own gear from aus to japan or should i just hire?

[*LOACH*]

I haven't been to Hokkaido (the island of Japan where Niseko is) but as the snow season in Honshu (the main island of Japan) has great snow in February and Hokkaido is generally colder than Honshu I am quite sure that Niseko will be great for snowboarding in February. Most Japanese people fly when they go to Hokkaido from Honshu and even if you could find a cheaper way using trains, ferries, pack animals or whatever I doubt the extra time wasted would make it worthwhile. (You would probably end up having to stay overnight at hotels etc).

I always rent boards and boots. I have about 30cm feet and although my choices may be a little limited in what I can hire I have always been able to get what I need to snowboard. I believe that Hokkaido has several resorts owned by Aussies too so you shouldn't have any problems getting stuff.

[JimmyRickard]

How's the snow around Christmas time? Our company break up for the period and I thought I might fit in a week or two if the snow is good.

[*LOACH*]

It's good.

[elrodeo666]

hey guys,

i'm thinking of heading over to japan in feb for a ski trip.....should still be good coverage right? Do you need to fly to niseko or can u train it?

also, is it worth taking your own gear from aus to japan or should i just hire?

February will be good.

Should be solid base by then and then Niseko Powder machine will be in full force.

Base should be somewhere around 3-4 metres and nice and cold for the super fast powder.

Depending on when in February you go the crowds will be a bit thinner especially if it's end or nearing the end of school holidays in Oz.

Niseko area has it's own crazy weather with deep cyclonic lows forming up north of Hokkaido and with systems coming out of Siberia and crossing the ocean between Russia and Japan the place just pukes super dry powder like a machine and thus attracts the crowds.

The area has a lot of ski in accommodation form backpacker bunk style to top end penthouse 5 star and big bucks and plenty of nightlife with bars and plenty of variety of restaurants.

Getting there is simple.

If you fly into Narita you can fly domestic with Jetstar direct to Sapporo / Chitose airport for around $60 and then easy as to get the bus direct to Niseko.

There's a few Japanese bus companies running services daily and plenty of foreign companies offering airport pick ups.

Regarding ski gear , I have a house in Niseko so leave all my boards and gear there.

If you want it easy as far as luggage then just hire your gear there. Niseko has a couple of foreign owned ski rental companies http://www.inski.com.au/ and cater for foreign sizes so no issues getting gear to fit. They also offer demo day deals where you can test out different types of powder skis and boards.

Taking your own gear make bloody sure your skis are decent proper powder skis and longer than normal that you would use in Oz. The powder is super soft and te last thing you want is to be under gunned and sinking in the powder. Wading through chest deep powder is not fun !!

Personally I'd take all your snow wear and boots and hire ski's there as you'll have the right gear for the conditions.

When buying your lift pass, depending on how many days your there grab a 2-3 Hirafu pass and once you've worked out this side of the mountain (Hirafu and Hanazano) then buy the all mountain pass so you can get away from the hordes and explore the whole mountain. This way you can ride all over Higashiyama and Annupuri and access some wicked powder stashes and the back bowl.

Hakuba has the steeps depending on where you stay. Gets good snow but not as dry as Niseko but still get's bloody good.

Off piste you need to know your shit and be very avalanche aware as they do happen and hence the ski patrol are nazis and will confiscate your pass if riding off limit areas.

February /March Hakuba builds a bloody fantastic snowpark which attracts some of the best snowboarders in Japan and riders from the rest of the world.

Night life is pretty quiet compared to Niseko and big variety of budget accommodation.

Mate and I are going to be offering full back country tour guiding all over Hokkaido wherever the best snow is and this will be around late Jan and Feb.

Tours will have full the Japanese experience with emphasis not just on the snow but also getting the full Japanese experience visiting Japanese restaurants and bars and getting to hang out with some cool Japanese people.

The 2 of us have a combined 25 years of riding , guiding and living in Japan and are fully experienced back country guides.

Anyway, if you need anymore info or info on bookings, flights, accomo etc, etc just fire away, happy to help.

How's the snow around Christmas time? Our company break up for the period and I thought I might fit in a week or two if the snow is good.

Sorry Loach but it's crap !!

Its just started to really start snowing and can and has rained through this time.

If your comparing it to OZ then it will be all time epic but if going off Niseko average then its prety average and extremely crowded.

I started riding and living there in late 90's and pulled the pin on the place in 2007 as it had turned into a circus and nowdays a lot worse.

Around xmas time you'll be playing spot the Japanese as most Asians you'll see are from Hong Kong.

You'll definitely get snow and if lucky some decent powder but it won't be the famous champagne powder that niseko is famous for.

People get sucked into the sales pitch to come over for a white xmas, yep there's snow and can be good but still not pristine but still can be fun.

[JimmyRickard]

February will be good.

Should be solid base by then and then Niseko Powder machine will be in full force.

Base should be somewhere around 3-4 metres and nice and cold for the super fast powder.

Depending on when in February you go the crowds will be a bit thinner especially if it's end or nearing the end of school holidays in Oz.

Niseko area has it's own crazy weather with deep cyclonic lows forming up north of Hokkaido and with systems coming out of Siberia and crossing the ocean between Russia and Japan the place just pukes super dry powder like a machine and thus attracts the crowds.

The area has a lot of ski in accommodation form backpacker bunk style to top end penthouse 5 star and big bucks and plenty of nightlife with bars and plenty of variety of restaurants.

Getting there is simple.

If you fly into Narita you can fly domestic with Jetstar direct to Sapporo / Chitose airport for around $60 and then easy as to get the bus direct to Niseko.

There's a few Japanese bus companies running services daily and plenty of foreign companies offering airport pick ups.

Regarding ski gear , I have a house in Niseko so leave all my boards and gear there.

If you want it easy as far as luggage then just hire your gear there. Niseko has a couple of foreign owned ski rental companies http://www.inski.com.au/ and cater for foreign sizes so no issues getting gear to fit. They also offer demo day deals where you can test out different types of powder skis and boards.

Taking your own gear make bloody sure your skis are decent proper powder skis and longer than normal that you would use in Oz. The powder is super soft and te last thing you want is to be under gunned and sinking in the powder. Wading through chest deep powder is not fun !!

Personally I'd take all your snow wear and boots and hire ski's there as you'll have the right gear for the conditions.

When buying your lift pass, depending on how many days your there grab a 2-3 Hirafu pass and once you've worked out this side of the mountain (Hirafu and Hanazano) then buy the all mountain pass so you can get away from the hordes and explore the whole mountain. This way you can ride all over Higashiyama and Annupuri and access some wicked powder stashes and the back bowl.

Hakuba has the steeps depending on where you stay. Gets good snow but not as dry as Niseko but still get's bloody good.

Off piste you need to know your shit and be very avalanche aware as they do happen and hence the ski patrol are nazis and will confiscate your pass if riding off limit areas.

February /March Hakuba builds a bloody fantastic snowpark which attracts some of the best snowboarders in Japan and riders from the rest of the world.

Night life is pretty quiet compared to Niseko and big variety of budget accommodation.

Mate and I are going to be offering full back country tour guiding all over Hokkaido wherever the best snow is and this will be around late Jan and Feb.

Tours will have full the Japanese experience with emphasis not just on the snow but also getting the full Japanese experience visiting Japanese restaurants and bars and getting to hang out with some cool Japanese people.

The 2 of us have a combined 25 years of riding , guiding and living in Japan and are fully experienced back country guides.

Anyway, if you need anymore info or info on bookings, flights, accomo etc, etc just fire away, happy to help.

Sorry Loach but it's crap !!

Its just started to really start snowing and can and has rained through this time.

If your comparing it to OZ then it will be all time epic but if going off Niseko average then its prety average and extremely crowded.

I started riding and living there in late 90's and pulled the pin on the place in 2007 as it had turned into a circus and nowdays a lot worse.

Around xmas time you'll be playing spot the Japanese as most Asians you'll see are from Hong Kong.

You'll definitely get snow and if lucky some decent powder but it won't be the famous champagne powder that niseko is famous for.

People get sucked into the sales pitch to come over for a white xmas, yep there's snow and can be good but still not pristine but still can be fun.

Thanks mate. Had a look at flights and I will save a bit of cash if I wait until the second half of jan, would that be a better time for snow?

also, I'm going to be backpacking by myself. What's a better social/nightlife scene, Niseko or Hakuba?

[elrodeo666]

Second half of Jan definitely better and will be well on the way to getting a good base.

Thing is what people don't understand is niseko needs a decent base to open all areas and to have optimum riding in those areas.The snow has to bury the sassa (type of bamboo) and lots of snow tends to open the tree areas as all the sassa and small shrubs and trees are buried.

For nightlife Niseko is way, way better than Hakuba although in pas couple of years Hakuba has livened up a bit but you can party every night in niseko.

Hakuba is pretty quiet compared to Niseko so if your on pat malone your way better off heading to Niseko as plenty of friendly bars and restaurants.

You can do shopping locally in niseko but way better off doing a bus run into local town Kutchan and do a big supermarket top up for food and munchies.

Onsens are easily accessed and definitely worth doing a run out to Yukichichibu out past Chisenupuri.

[yogi000]

hey loach and elrodeo666, I really appreciate the info, i'll start googling for flights and accommodation. i'd be keen on a tour......nothing too epic tho i'm only an intermediate skier.

[sinistaGTR]

Niseko has better snow....

But I personally like Hakuba better.. Has far more areas to explore, it isn't loaded with Aussies either (compared to Niseko).

Have been to both and could easily highly recommend either. If you are tight for time then Hakuba is easier to access (and cheaper).

[yogi000]

hey

anyone know of cheap flights from tokyo to sapporo? Cant see to find anything under 600

[JimmyRickard]

Yeah can't seem to find any flights with Jetstar to Sapporo out of Tokyo or Osaka.

Also, how is Niseko for boarding? I have a Burton twin which apparently isn't very good for powder. Should I just hire a board?