N1 Oil Pump - Epic Fail

[Rezlo]

My fun from yesterday in my S14 RB25, turned the T04z down to 1.8bar (had my full "legal" 76mm exhaust on) left the 285 street's on the rear and did a awsome track day with some pretty quick cars, managed an average lap time that really surprised and all was good till about 20 seconds after the video camera stopped recording on the cool down lap,,, as I went around the back of the track in a lower gear letting her cool down the oil idiot light came on and I heard the lifters drain, shut her off right away and freewheeled it back into the pits,

Let her stand for 10 mins, checked oil right on the full mark, catch tank with the usual 100-150ml from that amount of laps all looked fine, cranked her over with no plugs, stuff all oil pressure... towed it home, drained the oil, thankfully its perfectly clean, not a single sparkle let alone chunk... Cut the K&N open, perfectly clean inside...

I have all the "smart" things done like Greddy 13 row oil cooler, 6.5L active oil pan, tomei oil pump drive, oil restrictors, bored oil returns etc etc,,, the only weakness is that I have an N1 oil pump, I have had it for 2-3 years (before it became public known fact they were crap) and the motor has covered a good 25 000km's.

I usualy run her to 7800-8000rpm when racing but on the day in all my excitement testing out the new spring rates I ran her to 8300 twice, once just clippling the limiter (Pfc D-jetro)...

Going to be interesting to see what this oil pump looks like, hopefully I can get away with just polishing the crank journals and not cutting it considering actual run time was only a few seconds with no oil pressure.

Now the question comes,

Stock oil pump?

N1? NOT an option

Greddy?

Tomei?

Honestly, Tomei is out of my budget, how do you guys rate the Greddy oil pumps? I can just afford that, or maybe one of these new Nitto pumps? I would run drysump but honestly my engine bay is just jamm packed already and for my 700ish HP I dont feed it is realy "an only option"

[FineLine]

Check out the price of the Jun pump while you're at it. A fair bit less than the tomei item and I have broken about everything except the Jun oil pump to date.

[R31Nismoid]

The Tomei pump is the only decent one of the aftermarket ones. It doesn't run the same gear setup as N1/stock/HKS etc etc.

Either way, you can kill any oil pump if you want at the end of the day, and people will kill even the best.

As for publically known they are shit, i disagree. Ive never used anything but N1, same with everyone else i know.

Not one has failed.

[NYTSKY]

That really really sucks!

Very sorry to hear. I will now pray every night that my N1 oil pump holds together as long as its on my engine.

Good luck with the fix!

[FineLine]

The Tomei pump is the only decent one of the aftermarket ones. It doesn't run the same gear setup as N1/stock/HKS etc etc.

Either way, you can kill any oil pump if you want at the end of the day, and people will kill even the best.

As for publically known they are shit, i disagree. Ive never used anything but N1, same with everyone else i know.

Not one has failed.

Stop driving like a Nancy boy. N1 pumps are shit, plain and simple. Far too many have gone to god for no good reason.

Even in my limited skyline ownership time frame i have seen enough of them to be very wary of the pieces of crap.

[Rezlo]

As for publically known they are shit, i disagree. Ive never used anything but N1, same with everyone else i know.

Not one has failed.

I felt the same way till yesterday, unfortunatly oil pumps dont just grenade for no reason, 95% of the time you hear people bitching about oil pumps its always the N1. With a T04z usualy wound well past 2bar I highly doubt it is a "build" problem that caused the pump to break, not after 20+km's...

Tomei for the money I would go drysump,

Jun is 95% out of stock, but ill try find one.

[Rezlo]

Ok,

Greddy is available right now ,

Jun is $200us more available 2 weeks leed time

Nismo $100 more than Jun in stock

Tomei $400 more Nismo 3 week wait.

I think the toss up will be nismo and Jun though i havent heard much bad about greddy?

[R31Nismoid]

IMO i'd look to the Nitto.

They are as good as a JUN/HKS/Nismo, without the price tag.

I see no point in spending on the jap pumps other than a Tomei (vs the Nitto) simply due to the design and contruction of the actual gear setup.

Tomei is like a Supra/RB30ET

Stop driving like a Nancy boy. N1 pumps are shit, plain and simple. Far too many have gone to god for no good reason.

Even in my limited skyline ownership time frame i have seen enough of them to be very wary of the pieces of crap.

lol. At it again

One would think eventually you would stop blaming everyone else for your part failures due to abuse, poor installation and so on

Most of the N1 pump equipped cars are dedicated circuit cars that will see harder duties than you can even imagine, been together for 3+ years, many km's.

My cars do not get driven lightly either, not that it matters as i've never had a problem in fact, 100's of motors that i know of - not one has died due to oil pumps.

Funny that don't you think? 100's (probably 1,000's) of examples disproving a select few. I know what I'm going to believe.

I felt the same way till yesterday, unfortunatly oil pumps dont just grenade for no reason, 95% of the time you hear people bitching about oil pumps its always the N1. With a T04z usualy wound well past 2bar I highly doubt it is a "build" problem that caused the pump to break, not after 20+km's...

Tomei for the money I would go drysump,

Jun is 95% out of stock, but ill try find one.

I totally agree - they do not just die for no reason.

You know those people that start threads about N1 deaths - usually after 2-3 pages you find out they are limiter bashing, using BeeR rev limiters, and so on.

Which is going to kill any pump you can buy. No pump will take it forever, Jun, Tomei or otherwise.

Also motor assembly and so on, doesn't take much to upset things @ 8,000rpm.

Also think about the 1000's of motors that have been built that people own here on the forums, then GTROUK, SDU and all the US forums... all with N1 pumps.

If they were truly that bad there would be threads on all the forums every other week about it now wouldn't there? Sadly that isn't the case.

There is a thread every 6-12months or so, and virtually every one results in owner abuse via rev limiter or a poor motor build.

Anyway, this thread will go down the same line as all the other N1 oil pump threads.

The select few haters will post the hate, everyone else will still keep using N1 oil pumps without a problem

[r33_racer]

Go for an external pump if possible. Just need to make up a bracket, and a couple of lines and a drive pulley. Going by what youve been saying in the last few threads ive seen, you seem more then capable of doing it all yourself.

I dont believe they would be anymore expensive then any of jap pumps....shit our last 4 stage pump was about 1700. What do the jap ones go for these days?

[Duncan]

well....unless the motor's in pieces its a little too early to blame the oil pump either, could be lots of things. lets get the pics of it once the motor is apart.

[Swiper the Fox]

i have 1 Nitto pump left from the group buy thread...the only pumps i now use other than external.

Ive seen a Nitto pump 'eat' metal and not get damaged...i don't even think a Tomei pump could do that and survive.

Edited August 17, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[30detkiwi]

iv herd this question alot or similar at lest.now have you replaced the crank collar?iv seen nothing but horror scenes from mates using the n1 pumps and collars.my recomendation is that you get a collar spun up from a lath and run external pump. i run a gtr pump with a custom collar ($140) nz ready to go and i pointed my mate wif there 26z to the custom collar az they were al running n1.last season they went through 3 collars b4 fiting the new 1,and this season havent poped 1 yet (touch wood).

but the best bet is tidy up those bits in you engine bay that dont need to be there or re locate them and go external,mite azwell take the next steep seeing as you are pumping a few rwhp

[Swiper the Fox]

Brisbane VL guru's JW Auto are producing an external kit we are helping them design. After problems getting the last supplier to move on these JW is keen to produce a bolt on kit for us. These kits will unfortunately for some require the removal of air-con but will utilise a modified STD pump housing making them a truely 'bolt on' kit. Very easy for someone with basic mechanical skills to install and will come with ATI balancer, modified pump housing, Peterson single stage pump, CNC'd adjustable pump bracket, Gilmer drive pulley's, anodised fittings and braided lines. They wont be cheap but they will be the best 'wet' sump set-up for RB's.

Once JW provide a sample kit for us we will make them available for limited release via a group buy.

Edited August 17, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[zebra]

How un-cheap will they be paul, you can pm me if you want, and will the fit all RBs?

[FineLine]

IMO i'd look to the Nitto.

lol. At it again

One would think eventually you would stop blaming everyone else for your part failures due to abuse, poor installation and so on

Most of the N1 pump equipped cars are dedicated circuit cars that will see harder duties than you can even imagine, been together for 3+ years, many km's.

My cars do not get driven lightly either, not that it matters as i've never had a problem in fact, 100's of motors that i know of - not one has died due to oil pumps.

Funny that don't you think? 100's (probably 1,000's) of examples disproving a select few. I know what I'm going to believe.

blem

WTF! Over reading the play a bit arent you Ash. Just re read what I posted and i dont see me blaming anybody for any damn thing. What I did say was simple enough even for you. N1 pumps are shit. There's enough cold hard evidence on the floor to warrant the statement.

Yours hasnt broken, Goodonya mate. Now go buy a KKR turbo. Some of them dont break either.

[Swiper the Fox]

WTF! Over reading the play a bit arent you Ash. Just re read what I posted and i dont see me blaming anybody for any damn thing. What I did say was simple enough even for you. N1 pumps are shit. There's enough cold hard evidence on the floor to warrant the statement.

Yours hasnt broken, Goodonya mate. Now go buy a KKR turbo. Some of them dont break either.

I know another recent victim to the N1 crisis...broke on a low revving engine at around 1000klm. The driver unfortunately didnt notice the idiot light, it bound the inlet camshaft, skipped the belt and smashed valves into pistons. Ouch!!

I think the material they are using now to produce the gears in them is not up to scratch as the older stock N1 pumps (in Ash's defence) were a good pump. It took me 3 years of limiter smashing and 9000+ rpm launches to break my old stock N1 pump. It may or may not have something to do with the engine build as well, in the past if someone wanted to use an N1 pump id make sure the engine is properly balanced to an exact tolerance and i insist they use a proper balancer on the engine and i ensured it was correctly fitted. Mine is the only engine ive built thats broken a pump.

N1's now are Russian roulette...not a nice game if you loose.

Edited August 17, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[R31Nismoid]

WTF! Over reading the play a bit arent you Ash. Just re read what I posted and i dont see me blaming anybody for any damn thing. What I did say was simple enough even for you. N1 pumps are shit. There's enough cold hard evidence on the floor to warrant the statement.

Yours hasnt broken, Goodonya mate. Now go buy a KKR turbo. Some of them dont break either.

If i was over reading the play i'd be saying that you said Tomei pumps are shit and you shouldn't buy them, being you've also kill one

They are not shit, there is only select evidence here and there, perhaps as paul said the material has changed, who knows what goes on in a manufacturing plant during tougher times.

[R31Nismoid]

Anyone wanna ring Nissan and find out about the manufacturing process?

[r33_racer]

slightly off topic, but when people talk balance...to what degree we talking? To a gram, .1 of, or .01 of?

[Swiper the Fox]

slightly off topic, but when people talk balance...to what degree we talking? To a gram, .1 of, or .01 of?

+/-50 micrograms

so within 0.1 of a gram

Edited August 17, 2009 by DiRTgarage