N1 Oil Pump - Epic Fail

[Deano45]

Yeh, you can break any oil pump. But in reported cases the frequency of N1 pumps breaking seems to be far higher then most other oil pumps...

At this point, reported cases are really the only thing we can go by when evaluating just how good or bad certain oil pumps are.

I went with a nitto pump on my engine, didn't want to take any chances with an N1

r33_racer how did you manage to post in the future?

[R31Nismoid]

Yeh, you can break any oil pump. But in reported cases the frequency of N1 pumps breaking seems to be far higher then most other oil pumps...

That is because their market share exceed far and beyond probably all the brand name one's combined and then another zillion more units.

without documenting the history of each case - you cannot possible deduce or say N1 pumps breaking seems to be far higher.

That is factually incorrect I'm afraid.

[Rezlo]

That is because their market share exceed far and beyond probably all the brand name one's combined and then another zillion more units.

without documenting the history of each case - you cannot possible deduce or say N1 pumps breaking seems to be far higher.

That is factually incorrect I'm afraid.

So you do feel that there are more N1 pumps on the road than stock oil pumps? Because there are far more people posting N1 failures than stock, almost 10-1 ratio.

I would like to know if any of you guys have links to HKS, Jun or Greddy pumps that have just totally randomly failed without any other damage which could have contributed to the failure? I have found only one case of a totally random name brand pump failing that is not attributed to bearing/crank destruction due to possible out of balance or damper requirement etc.

Also if anyone has remains of any of the name brand pumps inner and outer gears I will happily pay air mail so I/we can have it tested at the same university as the N1, stock and SR20 is being tested at.

After all actual facts will speak volumes… but until I have hard material facts I am treating it as a rubbish pump till proven otherwise,

[shanef]

ash, i suggest you re-read post 177...

[R31Nismoid]

ash, i suggest you re-read post 177...

i did twice before i posted.

just making it clear for everyone else that reads this thread and might be confused by just looking @ the 'stats', which in all honesty don't show a thing.

[Rezlo]

i did twice before i posted.

just making it clear for everyone else that reads this thread and might be confused by just looking @ the 'stats', which in all honesty don't show a thing.

Do you think there are more N1 pumps in use than stock pumps? because a simple search will show boat loads more N1's fail than stock... fantasic "upgrade" as you call it...

Basic stats are given, from a simple search, this simple searching showed loads of random failing N1's.. I am yet to see more than one random failing name brand pump...

[TiTAN]

not everyone jumps on the internet to complain that their oil pump died, most just fix the problem and move on.

[Rezlo]

I guess some like to voice problems it to work out why it failed... something along the lines of learning from mistakes/ not wanting to repeat them,,, I think the only mistake made in this situation was me being cheap ass and buying a N1 when I should have paid another $400-500 and got a decent pump.

[R31Nismoid]

Do you think there are more N1 pumps in use than stock pumps? because a simple search will show boat loads more N1's fail than stock... fantasic "upgrade" as you call it...

Basic stats are given, from a simple search, this simple searching showed loads of random failing N1's.. I am yet to see more than one random failing name brand pump...

How many stock pump equipped motors are being pushed?

How many are still factory?

How many motors die and get rebuild with a factory pump to factory spec? How many to a high spec/power/stress?

How many motors die and get rebuild with a N1 pump? How many of those were done by less than experienced builders following the workshop manual?

I could go on, however i am sure you see my point i am trying to make here.

Your numbers of failed pumps is good, but that is all it is, a number. A stand alone number that for the most part takes nothing else into account.

I see statistics/numbers daily @ my work that managers fear them at times, but investigate further and often its a different story.

[GTRsean]

I still want to know what the hardness of the material is in a stock vs N1 pump.

I'm currently using a stock R33GTR pump on a R33 GTR crank/R33 based bottom end, and it's been the same pump for the 5 years I've had the car.

Good so far,....touch wood!

[proengines]

Hardness doesn't really mean much in terms of breakage, if it was pumps wearing that would be an issue. You could make the gears out of carbide and it's super hard but would shatter if you used them. 4140 is not as hard but will flex without breaking which is what you need for a gerotor gear.

[r33_racer]

Yeh, you can break any oil pump. But in reported cases the frequency of N1 pumps breaking seems to be far higher then most other oil pumps...

At this point, reported cases are really the only thing we can go by when evaluating just how good or bad certain oil pumps are.

[bigmikespec]

Yes hardness is bad, toughness/strength is what you want.

[r33_racer]

Greg and Michael are on the money...4140 would be ideal. Beautiful thing is its readily available and not that expensive, especially in round bar.

Lol, about carbide, it is uber hard and doesnt like flex or impact. I broke a $200 solid carbide drill not too long ago, whilst drilling ally of all things! I now know not to peck, and to let it dwell first before actually cutting.

[R31Nismoid]

well you want to bring in another variable stock pumps on stock motors, N1's always have been a common upgrade... but that is really just bringing in more data that no-one has.

[Keeper]

Is there any certain techniques in which the N1 works best with least failure rate then?

[bubba]

I'm looking forward to these splined gears

[r33_racer]

I tried posting this this morning...but it wouldnt work.

Ash, you might look at the stats on it all and see that technically it might not be true or accurate based on the accumlated info that rezlo has gotten in comparison to the rest of the stats out there which nobody knows other then nissan and how many N1s have been manufactured and sold....but anyone with an ounce of intelligence isnt going to take a chance when building a new motor, especially if its a big dollar build. And most who wouldnt know, would buy an N1 pump as its supposed to be an upgrade from std for a decent price too. But people do have problems with them, especially when they are leaned on in high reving, decent horsepower motors, but as you have pointed out many times other dont.....But even if the percentage overall was only 1% of reported cases, that would be enough for a clever enough man to weigh up whether he wants to risk it or not. Id hope he wouldnt, because who wants to take a chance when outlaying money?

If an N1 pump cant handle abuse on a performance motor in a sports car, whats the point in using it, really? If you cant limit bash if you go drifting (or burn out comps), or sustain high rpm for extended sessions in circuit racing, or place it under extreme loads at the drags with high rpm dumps/antilag/launch control, why risk using it? These seem to be the things which people often ask when finding out about an N1 failure, probably because anyone who has a skyline frequently does these things. If in more then a couple of reported cases an N1 pump cant live in these conditions then its a piece of CRAP imo and should be only used in std road cars as a replacement for worn out std oil pumps and nothing more.

You say its only a number/s, I say its a good enough collection of numbers saying dont risk it.

Kudos to rezlo for trolling forums to collect it all too!

On another note, I dont know how I posted in the future....but i like it!

[Adriano]

I can only imagine that the fact that the n1 pump flows more means that the gears are larger. Hence the amount of material at the drive surface would be thinner, and under more load. Does this seem logical?

[R31Nismoid]

If an N1 pump cant handle abuse on a performance motor in a sports car, whats the point in using it, really? If you cant limit bash if you go drifting (or burn out comps), or sustain high rpm for extended sessions in circuit racing, or place it under extreme loads at the drags with high rpm dumps/antilag/launch control, why risk using it?

Of course an N1 pump can't handle that...

Once again however comments are made as if every other pump can handle it - which they simply cannot. ALL Pumps WILL FAIL if you abuse them.

That is all the numbers really say to be honest. An oil pump, can be killed, wow... Hardly new information to the world now is it?

I'm not saying the other pumps are not better for the $$ spend, of course they are. Tomei is the pick of the lot/most chance it will take the beating.

A bigger $$ one might last longer, will it last forever? Simple answer is highly unlikely.

So by your own reasoning every oil pump is therefore a risk is it not? (now, how silly does that sound?)

Furthermore everyone should dry sump without question regardless of their needs or requirement as risk is not good.