Track Report: Rota Rims And P-cup Slicks..

[LSX-438]

Guys PLEASE let me do my homework before you slander a forum sponsor. I've posted this info so others an see a potential outcome of running such rims on a 1700kg car, with slicks, running say 1:02's around wakefield, with 1mm caliper clearance. I believe these wheels have taken a lot of punishment and extreme heat (here are my brembo's after superlap for reference) it's possible/likely i have pushed these wheels beyond their intended purpose to be frank.

[LSX-438]

If they break because they're on a 1700kg car running slicks and agressively curb hopping... well, plenty of people would have suggested they weren't fit for that purpose from the start...

Perhaps you are right on that one. My mistake perhaps. We did try (and had them xrayed).

[hrd-hr30]

temperature strips or paint on both the calipers and wheels may be something to consider next time out if you are worried about heat

[CaBS]

temperature strips or paint on both the calipers and wheels may be something to consider next time out if you are worried about heat

Wasnt this car on street tyres at superlap?

[DCIEVE]

The x-ray simply showed there were no flaws, it does not give any indication that the design or metallurgy are fit for purpose.

[GGTTRR]

Are any of the other GTRs out there doing sprints breaking other brands of wheels? If the only wheels breaking are ROTAs, they're shithouse by comparison. If they break because you drove through a puddle, that's really shithouse! If they break because they're on a 1700kg car running slicks and agressively curb hopping... well, plenty of people would have suggested they weren't fit for that purpose from the start...

I've been running all the sprints with Duncan in my GTR on Enkei GTC so far with out failure. But there are main difference between these two wheels. The Rota (TE37 copy) is very enclosed wheel and the clearance between the caliper and the wheel is very minimal, so the Rota's get much hotter.

As Duncan said we have x-rayed the Rotas and I've spoken to the metallurgist inspecting the x-ray, his comment was that the cast was very good quality.

That leaves the issue of the alloy used for the casting.

[2lazy]

Its not a te37 copy, they have 6 spokes.

[LSX-438]

Wasnt this car on street tyres at superlap?

Yep. I ran on the rotas and the 20's at superlap - on street tyres (erk)

this is how hot the brakes got WITH THE 20's ON - that's 800*c

so imagine how much hotter they got with next to zero caliper clearance with the 18's

I do think we've been pushing these rims far beyond their intended purpose. It's likely the regular extreme heat has affected them )especially at SL where we were pushing a bit harder/longer) then with the repeated curb hopping (at WP that is) subsequently cracking them. But i am guessing at this stage, like everyone else.

Edited June 7, 2010 by LSX-438

[dori34]

Its not a te37 copy, they have 6 spokes.

um they both have 6spokes.

why are people comparing these rims to te37 and other high end wheels when they are more then double the price of these rims and obviously better quality. these should be compared with wheels on the lower end of the market such as work emotions. im sure if they received alot of track work the will probably crack too as they're just a cast rim also.

[nisskid]

seen a few of those racked/smashed pics before, which is why we had them xrayed.

so whats going on? anyone with useful info?

not trynna fire u up again, but was there any strength test results? i mean ud hope they aren't flawed from the factory, but i guess that's something you have to worry about when you buy ROTAS. but for a GTR that see's test work id be worried about the general strength of the material. it's one thing to not have wheels that are flawed from the factory and dont fail within the first few times you use them, it's another to have wheels that simply cant handle the forces they are dealing with and fatigue over time.

like i said from the start, ROTA's are notorious for faults from the factory, but that only a fraction of the story, they are weak cast wheels, regardless of faults, they are weak and over time they are going to fatigue, assuming they dont break from a half decent impact first.

also i appreciate you posting your findings, i can understand it wouldnt have been easy for the "told you so" bs, but these things need to be reported as too often they arent. people need to know this stuff before they go buying it for themselves.

[nisskid]

You might be right guys, might be wrong too. Could be a little from columns a and b. Most of those smashed wheel pics are probably on relatively lightweight cars running street tyres on the street. Perhaps some of the accidents are a result of a failed rim, or perhaps results of accidents/smashing up gutters etc. Does anyone actually know the stories behind any of those pics? If you do, please tell. Otherwise we're all pissing in the wind.

i know at least a few of the examples are from regular track use, 1 was a high powered FWD, cant remember the rest, it's been a long time, but they werent from accidents or anything like that.

Guys PLEASE let me do my homework before you slander a forum sponsor. I've posted this info so others an see a potential outcome of running such rims on a 1700kg car, with slicks, running say 1:02's around wakefield, with 1mm caliper clearance. I believe these wheels have taken a lot of punishment and extreme heat (here are my brembo's after superlap for reference) it's possible/likely i have pushed these wheels beyond their intended purpose to be frank.

good rims are designed to take punishment though, how many R32 GTR wheels do you see getting around on track cars still to this day? they are what over 20 years old? how about R33 GTR wheels, i can personally testify to their strength, i have had about 4-5 different sets of 33 GTR wheels, my latest pair took a direct hit, at about 40k's over a open Japanese gutter (a square concrete channel, about 1.5ft across, 1 meter deep), cant think of many harder hits possible, both wheels stood up, 1 was completely fine, 1 came away with a small dent.

but you're right, you have pushed them past their intended purpose, doing track on a R35 GTR, that's why you buy proper wheels that are designed to do that.

pic of the incident:

[dori34]

This is the first time i've heard or seen this type of rota wheel crack. i did some research about rotA wheels and apparently they had a recall of some wheels but that was years ago. their quality has improved heaps since then. if you google cracked rota grid you won't find many(if any) apart from this thread.

[nisskid]

This is the first time i've heard or seen this type of rota wheel crack. i did some research about rotA wheels and apparently they had a recall of some wheels but that was years ago. their quality has improved heaps since then. if you google cracked rota grid you won't find many(if any) apart from this thread.

im sure you could find something, in fact im positive ive seen some. regardless, i have explained how this works earlier in the thread, and why what u see on the net is only a fraction of what is actually there.

also where the hell did my original posts go?

[LSX-438]

I dont think anyone is debating the strength of a cast vs forged wheel and/or what happens to them when you drive offroad or smash them around.

[hrd-hr30]

um they both have 6spokes.

why are people comparing these rims to te37 and other high end wheels when they are more then double the price of these rims and obviously better quality. these should be compared with wheels on the lower end of the market such as work emotions. im sure if they received alot of track work the will probably crack too as they're just a cast rim also.

Works are out of ROTAs league too mate. They're low pressure cast. Cheapies like ROTAs would be gravity cast.

and that's to say nothing of the material used

[nisskid]

I dont think anyone is debating the strength of a cast vs forged wheel and/or what happens to them when you drive offroad or smash them around.

it's just you talk about ROTA's trying to say they have taken a beating, so it's understandable that they might break, i'm saying i wouldnt buy wheels for my car where it became understandable to see cracks in them after simply some hard driving over 6 months or a year or whatever it was, buy wheels where ur confident in them, where you expect them to not crack just from a bit of hard track use.

[LSX-438]

it's just you talk about ROTA's trying to say they have taken a beating, so it's understandable that they might break, i'm saying i wouldnt buy wheels for my car where it became understandable to see cracks in them after simply some hard driving over 6 months or a year or whatever it was, buy wheels where ur confident in them, where you expect them to not crack just from a bit of hard track use.

it's just the facts. i am trying to present a balanced view. over the years i've had plenty of stuff break at the track, and seen a lot more besides. let's just have the good grace and maturity to realise that. i respect your view. you've made it well aware to all.

[nisskid]

it's just the facts. i am trying to present a balanced view. over the years i've had plenty of stuff break at the track, and seen a lot more besides. let's just have the good grace and maturity to realise that. i respect your view. you've made it well aware to all.

that's fair enough, just trying to show what good quality wheels can take, people need to understand the difference between low and high quality wheels, and understand the difference in terms of real life examples.

[STATUS]

have not read the whole thread but i hope you keep an eye on them.... i have seen heaps of broken rota wheels, DA 3 years ago in tassie (symmons plains) saw about 5 rota wheels buy the farm.

[bigmikespec]

FYI the X-ray is almost irrelevant; brittle failure can occur very quickly as soon as a crack begins to propagate. Could have happened within several load cycles during braking.