Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

And the old qualifying cars, with grenage engines, blanked off panels for less drag...etc

how much money did they spend to get the engines to last for 2-3 races?

Edited by sav man
  • Replies 3.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Why is that such an issue??? Is it so evil that a company makes the necessary investments in order to procure and protect future prospects?? Why then in the 80's didn't McLaren buy Brands Hatch, or Williams, when they won a swag in the 90's, why didn't they buy Silverstone??? Ferrari owns Mugello and Fiorano, they both have the proper facilities to allow Ferrari to test very frequently and to run dedicated and complex R&D.. Why should they be vilified for that? Isn't that what you'd call commercially and competitively prudent and wise?? Dietrich Materzitsch (sp?) bought the A1-Ring hoping to use it as Red Bull's testing facility before the testing ban was put in place, in fact he still owns it, obviously the man knows what it is and what it takes to run a successful F1 team, or maybe Adrian Newey gave him the hint... Either way, Ferrari were simply geniuses to plan and build their dedicated testing facilities, it put them ahead and won them the bag of success they truly deserved in the early 2000's. Quite simply it was earned and deserved. Maybe other teams should have heeded the signs instead of bitching and whining about costs and Ferrari/Schumacher dominance...

Seriously though, if they must cap it I'd be happy to see 30 days of testing... At least it would force teams to be a little strategic in its usage throughout the season... Go hell for leather at the start? Use it evenly over the year? or put all the eggs in one basket and save it till the last?? Now THAT would be a worthy concept..

- Base 2000 regs (Slightly larger front wings tho, but not as big as current spec ones).

- Slicks (Last years sizes but with LARGER rears to big back grip balance, as opposed to making the fronts narrower, which we now see has failed miserably).

- Keep V8 engines.

- Ban a few more exotic metals for engine building.

- The FIA have mandated a strict limit on bore size, maybe mandate con-rod size too?? Dunno, a half-baked idea on my behalf.

- Engine to last 2 weekends, tranny's 3, promoting 'some' longevity is a good thing I will admit, but it should not be the dominating factor, performance should be the star of the show.

- Piss off RPM limit NOW! Cars maybe in the draft, but hit max revs and struggle to accelerate... Yeah, smart one FIA!!!

- Make the designers fit a big wing-mount, roughly 2 inches wide, which sits at the bottom of the engine cover and supports the rear-wing. This 'blocker-device' would create a fair bit of drag in order to encourage a larger 'draft' for the following car to follow.

- I actually like the idea of being able to mechanically adjust ride-height during pit-stops.. Would entice more varied strategy.

- Bring back re-fuelling, but increase fuel rig speed from 12 l/ps to 15 l/ps, put a bit more pressure on the boys on the rattle guns.

- Just for the records I'm happy they pissed off wheel covers, they were a total sham.

- Also, does anyone else think the extended engine covers are a bit of a joke??? Ban em I say!

* Lastly, some food for thought... Has anyone actually considered that the reducing of the rear wing would have actually reduced total drag produced by the leading car? Less drag would equal a smaller draft for the following car??? That can't be good surely... I agree on decreasing rear diffuser size to either 125mm or 150 or 140 mil... Maybe 125mm is TOO small, but a reduction from 175mm is necessary I agree..

F1, if you can't take the heat, GET OF THE KITCHEN!!! Formula 1 should be NO PLACE for MEDIOCRITY! That is what NASCAR is for lol, and they pass too frequently for their own benefit!

Why is that such an issue??? Is it so evil that a company makes the necessary investments in order to procure and protect future prospects?? Why then in the 80's didn't McLaren buy Brands Hatch, or Williams, when they won a swag in the 90's, why didn't they buy Silverstone??? Ferrari owns Mugello and Fiorano, they both have the proper facilities to allow Ferrari to test very frequently and to run dedicated and complex R&D.. Why should they be vilified for that? Isn't that what you'd call commercially and competitively prudent and wise?? Dietrich Materzitsch (sp?) bought the A1-Ring hoping to use it as Red Bull's testing facility before the testing ban was put in place, in fact he still owns it, obviously the man knows what it is and what it takes to run a successful F1 team, or maybe Adrian Newey gave him the hint... Either way, Ferrari were simply geniuses to plan and build their dedicated testing facilities, it put them ahead and won them the bag of success they truly deserved in the early 2000's. Quite simply it was earned and deserved. Maybe other teams should have heeded the signs instead of bitching and whining about costs and Ferrari/Schumacher dominance...

There is a slight difference. McLaren, Williams are private companies.

Ferrari, on the other hand, used to run those FIAT stickers for a reason.

F1, if you can't take the heat, GET OF THE KITCHEN!!! Formula 1 should be NO PLACE for MEDIOCRITY! That is what NASCAR is for lol, and they pass too frequently for their own benefit!

Actually, on average, F1 is mediocre. :banana:

There is a slight difference. McLaren, Williams are private companies.

Ferrari, on the other hand, used to run those FIAT stickers for a reason.

Actually, on average, F1 is mediocre. :banana:

1: I am well aware they aren't and never were constructors.. However surely in past times they must've been better off in pocket (not that it looks like McLaren is struggling for a quid tho), Peter Sauber proved that privateers can moderately succeed with prudent management and yet make massive investments for the future. His infamous wind-tunnel in Hinwill is regarded as being one of the best in the motorsport-world. It in fact reserved the jobs of his Swiss employees when he sold to BMW, it didn't break him and it served BMW pretty well thereafter. It was mainly BMW's focus on kers that undid them last year (like the Fez and Renault), prior to that though BMW to be fair were nipping at the heels of the big two.. So obviously Peter Sauber's investment worked to some measurable degree.. Obviously it isn't the same as buying a race track, but the principle remains the same. In my previous post I did mention Dietrich Materzitsch, unless I'm mistaken, RBR aren't a manufacturer and is a 'privateer team' as you pointed out in regards to McLaren and Williams...

I agree with the 2nd point too, definitely post 2000 it has suffered quite a disappointing decline...

Edited by Marco-R34GTT
1: I am well aware they aren't and never were constructors.. However surely in past times they must've been better off in pocket (not that it looks like McLaren is struggling for a quid tho), Peter Sauber proved that privateers can moderately succeed with prudent management and yet make massive investments for the future. His infamous wind-tunnel in Hinwill is regarded as being one of the best in the motorsport-world. It in fact reserved the jobs of his Swiss employees when he sold to BMW, it didn't break him and it served BMW pretty well thereafter. It was mainly BMW's focus on kers that undid them last year (like the Fez and Renault), prior to that though BMW to be fair were nipping at the heels of the big two.. So obviously Peter Sauber's investment worked to some measurable degree.. Obviously it isn't the same as buying a race track, but the principle remains the same. In my previous post I did mention Dietrich Materzitsch, unless I'm mistaken, RBR aren't a manufacturer and is a 'privateer team' as you pointed out in regards to McLaren and Williams...

Yes but Red Bull have a rather large income stream (ie those crap energy drink things) whereas Williams & McLaren (to a lesser extent) don't have much other than sponsorship. You need to remember the huge money both teams invested in their facilities. Williams in the 90's & McLaren more recently. The McLaren HQ is, by all accounts, breathtaking. The Williams one was, in its day, head and shoulders above anyone else.

I agree with the 2nd point too, definitely post 2000 it has suffered quite a disappointing decline...

Actually if you look at the grids in the 80's you will see that more than half the cars were absolute rubbish. The best season preview assessment of a car I ever read went as follows: Eurobrun. Absolutely & totally shite.

F1 has, in recent years, been much closer than historically was the case.

See Bernie is back pushing his "short-cut" idea to spice up the racing and help overtaking. FFS these muppets have no idea. WHy not cal it Super Mario racing, or maybe introduce a wrecking ball that swings accross the track every now and then...

And these farking idiots have made a fortune out of F1 :banana:

He wants to have little shortcuts accross corners that drivers get to use a certain amount of times per race. If they are being held up then they just fly on through...Its BS. Then you wont see any passing. Just guys running up the side road...farking Bernie., will some pretty young thing hurry up and feed Bernie too much viagra and give the bastard a heart attack. How can so called intelligent people who have been around motorsport all their lives be so farking stoopid and out of touch.

Where is Kim Jong Il when i need him "Why are people so farking stooopid!, why arent they intelligent like me" :banana:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVL6ZJoWGxw

At least they make their own engines, not like that british team who steals intellectual property from Ferrari.... :)

cracka puh-leez; it's not like Ferrari are in any way a shining example of sainthood

do you really wanna have that argument? apparently when some underling inside McLaren does something wrong, the FIA holds Ron Dennis personally accountable (obviously it'll be Whitmarsh now), yet when the TEAM PRINCIPAL of Renault orders one of his seat-warmers to have a stack, Renault is in no way responsible for that :)

and it's got nothing at all to do with the fact that a Renault withdrawl would have left F1 with no dual manufacturer|engine supplier team bar Ferrari (until the recent advent of Merc GP, of course)

p.s the shortcut idea is some dumb-ass shit

Actually, thas a good poit. Engine manufacturers. We have Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari and Cosworth. Hadnt stopped to consider we only have four. There was a time where along with Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Cosworth we had Honda, Toyota, Peugot, Mugen, BMW. There are others but, they are the ones who have been around the most since the 90s

and the Cosworth engine looks to be a bit shit at the moment, too...

ima go out on a small, shaky, treacherous limb and say that the McLarens with be a full in-house effort by the time the engine supply deal with Mercedes runs out

Counts for nothing in my eyes. Half the supercars out there are powered by old Merc V12s, Mustange V8s etc with forced induction. BMW couldnt build an F1 engine that was as good as the Merc, Ferrari or even Renault. Wasnt as reliable as the Toyota etc etc so worlds apart building a limited build V8 and an F1 engine

The BMW engines were monsters in the early 2000's IIRC, just Montoya got a little bit loco and blew them all up! Ralf not so much, but I do recall the BMW engines that sat behind the Williams cars certainly had some grunt! Enough to worry Ferrari and McLaren.. Also for the record, I don't think you could hardly add Peugeot in there, they bailed at the end of 2000 and left dear old Alain on a bit of a limb... However, it is a shame they canned their F1 programme..

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • I'm looking for some real world experiences/feed back from anyone who has personally ran a EFR7670 with a 1.05 exhaust housing or a .83 I'm leaning towards the .83 because its a street car used mostly for spirited driving in the canyons roads. I"m not looking for big numbers on paper. I want a responsive powerband that will be very linear to 8000 rpm. I dont mind if power remains somewhat flat but dont want power to drop off on top. The turbo I've purchased is a 1.05, although the mounting flange T3 vs T4 and internal vs external waste gates are different on both housings, I not concern about swapping parts or making fabrication mods to get what I want. Based on some of the research I've done with chat gpt, the 1.05 housing seems to be the way to go with slightly more lag and future proofing for more mods but recommends .83 for best response/street car setup. AI doesn't have the same emotions as real people driving a GTR so I think you guys will be able to give me better feed back 😀   
    • Surely somebody has one in VIC. Have you asked at any shops?  Is this the yearly inspection or did you get a canary?
    • This is where I share pain with you, @Duncan. The move to change so many cooling system pieces to plastic is a killer! Plastic end tanks and a few plastic hose flanges on my car's fail after so little time.  Curious about the need for a bigger rad, is that just for long sessions in the summer or because the car generally needs more cooling?
    • So, that is it! It is a pretty expensive process with the ATF costing 50-100 per 5 litres, and a mechanic will probably charge plenty because they don't want to do it. Still, considering how dirty my fluid was at 120,000klm I think it would be worth doing more like every 80,000 to keep the trans happy, they are very expensive to replace. The job is not that hard if you have the specialist tools so you can save a bit of money and do it yourself!
    • OK, onto filling. So I don't really have any pics, but will describe the process as best I can. The USDM workshop manual also covers it from TM-285 onwards. First, make sure the drain plug (17mm) is snug. Not too tight yet because it is coming off again. Note it does have a copper washer that you could replace or anneal (heat up with a blow torch) to seal nicely. Remove the fill plug, which has an inhex (I think it was 6mm but didn't check). Then, screw in the fill fitting, making sure it has a suitable o-ring (mine came without but I think it is meant to be supplied). It is important that you only screw it in hand tight. I didn't get a good pic of it, but the fill plug leads to a tube about 70mm long inside the transmission. This sets the factory level for fluid in the trans (above the join line for the pan!) and will take about 3l to fill. You then need to connect your fluid pump to the fitting via a hose, and pump in whatever amount of fluid you removed (maybe 3 litres, in my case 7 litres). If you put in more than 3l, it will spill out when you remove the fitting, so do quickly and with a drain pan underneath. Once you have pumped in the required amount of clean ATF, you start the engine and run it for 3 minutes to let the fluid circulate. Don't run it longer and if possible check the fluid temp is under 40oC (Ecutek shows Auto Trans Fluid temp now, or you could use an infrared temp gun on the bottom of the pan). The manual stresses the bit about fluid temperature because it expands when hot an might result in an underfil. So from here, the factory manual says to do the "spill and fill" again, and I did. That is, put an oil pan under the drain plug and undo it with a 17mm spanner, then watch your expensive fluid fall back out again, you should get about 3 litres.  Then, put the drain plug back in, pump 3 litres back in through the fill plug with the fitting and pump, disconnect the fill fitting and replace the fill plug, start the car and run for another 3 minutes (making sure the temp is still under 40oC). The manual then asks for a 3rd "spill and fill" just like above. I also did that and so had put 13l in by now.  This time they want you to keep the engine running and run the transmission through R and D (I hope the wheels are still off the ground!) for a while, and allow the trans temp to get to 40oC, then engine off. Finally, back under the car and undo the fill plug to let the overfill drain out; it will stop running when fluid is at the top of the levelling tube. According to the factory, that is job done! Post that, I reconnected the fill fitting and pumped in an extra 0.5l. AMS says 1.5l overfill is safe, but I started with less to see how it goes, I will add another 1.0 litres later if I'm still not happy with the hot shifts.
×
×
  • Create New...