Intercooler Matching

[b0neR]

What would be the best size intercooler for a moderately tuned gts-t (RB25) running a 2530 or similar size turbo?

And is it best to get a custom job or buy brand name, i.e. a HKS 'cooler kit?

[lukits01]

Personally I think for standard or bolt on turbos I'd go for the brand name kits

these days with the OZ dollar so strong they arent that much more expensive and are guranteed to perform (easy to install too GO DIY!!!)

such as the HKS type S, or Trust V-SPL (both tube and fin) would do just fine

if you're planning to go for a bigger turbo then might as well go for Apexi GT spec or HKS type R but these are again a few hundred bucks over the cheaper V-SPL

check out nengun I just bought a V-SPL of them for 1200 delivered oh plus customs duty

[rev210]

Trust make a slightly larger version of the stock intercooler with the R-SPL core. It should do for 400hp worth of air and provide excellent response. Up from that perhaps the smallest core size for a front mount would do quite well in the same brand, for more circuit style fun.

[theintercoolerguy]

Hey,

Here at; The Intercooler Guy (www.theintercoolerguy.com), we sell a wide range of bolt on aftermarket intercooler kits for the Nissan R32,R33,R34 skylines.

For your particular appilcation, the R33 GTS-T we have two options;

1. Hybrid kit

2. A.V.O Kit

Kits include:

1. Hybrid Super Monster bar and plate inercooler 800x300x76 (core size:600x300x76), kit includes; cromed super lightweight aluminum piping, super stainless steel clamps, silicon hoses (blue in colour), bolts, brackets and complete instruction guide.

PRICE (includes free shipping and free boost gauge anywhere in Australia)

$1100

2.A.V.O bar and plate intercooler kit OUR price $1450 including free shipping anywhere in Australia. please see www.avoturbo.com for full specs on this package.

The Hybrid package is the most popular package as is evident from these forums.

The Intercooler Guy

What would be the best size intercooler for a moderately tuned gts-t (RB25) running a 2530 or similar size turbo?  

And is it best to get a custom job or buy brand name, i.e. a HKS 'cooler kit?

[Sydneykid]

We use standard GTR intercoolers up to 300 rwkw.

[MLCrisis]

Hey, Rev210, I know from previous threads that you are a great believer in the stock stuff - and I would tend towards that view. But given the price of the Trust stock mount intercooler being about the same as some FMICs, is it worth it? Also, nobody seems to talk about whether going for an FMIC creates extra lag compared to the stock mount. It would seem to me that any FMIC must create more lag, at least with a stock turbo, 'coz you are adding a big volume of air between compressor and intake that has to be compressed. Can you or anyone else shed any light on this aspect? I am looking at some mods and I am not convinced that an intercooler mod, at least an FMIC, is all it is cracked up to be! I know many will condemn me as a heretic to say such things, but there are an awful lot of followers of fashion here who don't know the engineering! Anyone shed any light?

Cheers.

[nitemare5]

i think its more of a response issue more then "lag"

[Gson]

not sure if everyone knows but mercury motorsport are selling 600 300 76 bar and plate coolers for 550 delivered!

looks like a good deal to me!

the only thing that looks a little suspect are the end tanks! doesnt look as though they would utilise the whole core! does any one know about this core? its just i am thinking of getting one!

[Anquetil]

 Also, nobody seems to talk about whether going for an FMIC creates extra lag compared to the stock mount.  It would seem to me that any FMIC must create more lag, at least with a stock turbo, 'coz you are adding a big volume of air between compressor and intake that has to be compressed.   Can you or anyone else shed any light on this aspect?  

I was really sceptical about this as well when researching, but when talking about seat of your pants feeling, I felt no noticable lag with my Trust kit 600x275x75.

All the guys I've read that have got the Hybrid 600x300x76 have mentioned the same thing about their kits. So I'm wondering whether you only start to feel lag in coolers over 600x300x76 on RB20/25's which is overkill for basic mods anyway.

[EnricoPalazzo]

i have a gtr cooler. Very happy with it.

[Evil]

Hey, Rev210, I know from previous threads that you are a great believer in the stock stuff - and I would tend towards that view.  But given the price of the Trust stock mount intercooler being about the same as some FMICs, is it worth it?  Also, nobody seems to talk about whether going for an FMIC creates extra lag compared to the stock mount.  It would seem to me that any FMIC must create more lag, at least with a stock turbo, 'coz you are adding a big volume of air between compressor and intake that has to be compressed.   Can you or anyone else shed any light on this aspect?  I am looking at some mods and I am not convinced that an intercooler mod, at least an FMIC, is all it is cracked up to be!  I know many will condemn me as a heretic to say such things, but there are an awful lot of followers of fashion here who don't know the engineering!  Anyone shed any light?

Cheers.

i have not noticed any increase in lag over the stock cooler (using a hybrid monster kit)... i am running the stock turbo @ 9psi...

[Roy]

I can go along with that, i have a HKS Type S cooler, and for the life of me there is no adverse affects of fitting hte larger cooler. If the extra couple of litres dampens response as some claim , then they are a better persn then me to detect it.

Without even touching my boost controller i gained 2 psi.

I seem to recall the S cooler is also about 600 x 300 x 70

[Sydneykid]

Hi guys, here is an example of 4 intercooler setups and pipework we have actually used;

1. R33 GTST Standard Intercooler and standard R32 GTST pipework

150 rwkw = 27 lbs of air per min @ 13 litres of i/c & pipework

2. Supra Intercooler and matching 63mm pipework

180 rwkw = 30 lbs of air per min @ 15 litres of i/c & pipework

3. Standard GTR GTR and 63/75mm pipework

250 rwkw = 40 lbs of air per min @ 21 litres of i/c & pipework

4. Greddy 600 X 300 X 115 and 80 mm pipework

400 rwkw = 60 lbs of air per min @ 28 litres of i/c & pipework

If you look at the numbers you can see that the rate of air flow and the volume of I/C and pipework have a fixed relationship (27 = 13 , 30 = 15 , 40 = 21 , 60 = 28). This is not an accident, I designed it that way. The reason is I wanted to keep the throttle response as close what it was when the car had 150 rwkw, because I though that was very nice response.

The theory I followed was, the more power the engine produces the more air it needs. Thus if I keep the increase in the volume of air inside the inlet system in the same proportion as the power increase, then the throttle response should stay the same. This is based on the engine using the air in the same time frame.

So when people say they fitted a FMIC and have not noticed any less throttle response, my response would be, that is what I would expect. As long as they went from 150 rwkw to 180 rwkw. On the other hand, if there was no power increase then it would be simply physically impossible for there to be no decrease in throttle response.

The problem of poor throttle response arrises when you have a 220 rwkw engine with a 28 litre inlet system. This is something I see way to often.

Hope that adds to this interesting thread.

[Abo Bob]

So when people say they fitted a FMIC and have not noticed any less throttle response, my response would be, that is what I would expect.  As long as they went from 150 rwkw to 180 rwkw.  On the other hand, if there was no power increase then it would be simply physically impossible for there to be no decrease in throttle response.

Ok, so people say they get power increases from a FMIC, are they getting 30 rwkw (using the above example) or are you saying that you need to be doing something else at the same time to avoid decreasing your throttle response?

[Sydneykid]

Hi Abo Bob, Roy answered it

Without even touching my boost controller i gained 2 psi.

An extra 2 psi, lower inlet temperatures and a tune to match. I'd be pretty peed off if I didn't get around 30 rwkw increase.

[Gson]

has any one had a standard gtr core on a flow bench? what does it flow at?

we need comparrisons between coolers?

[Abo Bob]

I see, thank you.

Would I be able to get that from my r34? Some people seem to be saying that the 34 coolers don't need changing until you are getting much more serious.

[Warpspeed]

Cson, funnily enough I had a GTR core up on my flow bench over the weekend.

What I measured was 22" water drop at 256CFM. That is about 0.785 Psi at 128Kw (roughly).

Pressure drop increases with the square of power and flow, so expect maybe 3.14 psi at 256Kw.

I really like Sydneykids approach to pipe volumes as well. The GTR core has rather large end tank volumes, but they are very nice looking end tanks from the aspect of even flow through the cooler tubes. Some of the aftermarket end tanks look rather primitive in comparison.

[meshmesh]

without sound like a lame a$$.. it's obviously not a simple yeh mate I'll take the 600x300x115 bar & plate, 1 in tube & fin grilled please with some tartar sauce & lemon thanks :confused: ....

Sydneykid's has just confused the daylights out of me... all I want is an intercooler solution. The figures of "40 lbs of air per min @ 21 litres of i/c & pipework" has lost me totally.

Im estimating around 300+kw @ all 4wheels on the gtr.. "if boost pressure comes into this formula, I would say ~1.2 -1.3bar" but then...

1. what size cooler?

2. brand? as each maker claims there name to fame eg: pressure drops, flows etc.

3. do i need new piping "?lbs pm @ ?litres of pipework"

[Warpspeed]

Sydneykid is just expressing what total pipe volumes give good response at various power levels. It is a very useful rule of thumb figure to know. It is just one of many factors to consider.