A Step by Step Guide to STOP THE CHANGES to the 15 Year Rule

[rockysilvia]

I DON'T want the Skyline to be a cheap car.

I DON'T want 17 year olds driving $20,000 GTRs

I DON'T want everyone driving Skylines because there are 40,000 of them in the country and the market oversaturation have driven the price down so any old joe-blow can own one.

merli, simple question: did you know about the 15 year rule when you bought your car? blind freddy could see this was going to happen when r32's etc became available for importation through this rule.

you bought a car when there was a clear set of rules in place (ie 15 year rule). this rule hasn't changed at all, and now you want to stop it when you now stand to lose?

where were you in the past championing the cause for owners of other cars (early mr2's for example), who suddenly had to contend with the unlimited importation of cars the same as theirs, in what was previously a 'limited supply' market?

[DRIFTT]

merli, simple question: did you know about the 15 year rule when you bought your car? blind freddy could see this was going to happen when r32's etc became available for importation through this rule.

you bought a car when there was a clear set of rules in place (ie 15 year rule). this rule hasn't changed at all, and now you want to stop it when you now stand to lose?

Why would blind freddy think this rule below affect the importation and price of R32 GTR's.

The intent of this arrangement when it was introduced was to provide for the importation of older vehicles on the basis that they were generally imported for restoration and club use.

Same as CPA and 4WD's it was never intended for cars like that but somebody had to push it and now we are all paying for it.

People just get to greedy and it affects us all, now you have to be a rocket scientist to get a RAWS as well as $60,000 and hope DOTR's are having a good day.

It will be 18,000 cars only imported and it will be RAWS cars rain hail or shine.

[rockysilvia]

Why would blind freddy think this rule below affect the importation and price of R32 GTR's.

The intent of this arrangement when it was introduced was to provide for the importation of older vehicles on the basis that they were generally imported for restoration and club use.

that is not a government rule or legislation! do you actually have the government literature/ammendment details? rather than simply cutting and pasting someones interpretation/personal opinion on the matter!

so you are telling me every car that has already been brought in under this rule in the last few years (r31's come to mind) has been brought in for restoration or club use?? i don't think so! the government approves them to be brought in and lets them be registered like any other car.

there has been a precedent set for years. it is no different now, simply the cars available have changed.

[RussGTR]

I say keep the 15 yo rule.

I was sitting on the fence previously but have been convinced.

Its funny reading all you guys who are against the rule. You are all really struggling with your argument.

[predator]

that is not a government rule or legislation! do you actually have the government literature/ammendment details? rather than simply cutting and pasting someones interpretation/personal opinion on the matter!

sorry, rocksilvia this is taken DIRECT from the Governments submission and therefore the government's position: "The intent of this arrangement when it was introduced was to provide for the importation of older vehicles on the basis that they were generally imported for restoration and club use."

But anybody does want to see what the Government is thinking: read their submissions request... quite simple! And see whether you agree or disagree. If you disagree, simple let your views be known and respond as indicated. If not, be quiet or write why you think it should be removed.

http://www.r34skyline.com/politics/dotar/D...otar_15year.pdf

[predator]

Here are the options as the government has put forward. Note specifically I already see a lean towards option#2 in their wording (post if you believe otherwise), which I guess is probably my position also, and brings into line things into what actually makes sense. 1989 onwards SEVS, 1989 earlier "15 year". No gaps, fixing most of the problems indicated.

Option 1 - Make no changes to the current arrangements.

This option would allow for the continued unrestricted importation of vehicles 15 or

more years old. In 2003 numbers more than doubled and indications are that numbers will continue to increase each year over the next few years. It is very likely that the number of older vehicles, left unchecked, will exceed the number of vehicles being processed through the RAWS.

There is already evidence of some businesses positioning themselves to specialise in the importation of older vehicles, especially from Japan. These businesses are now actively advertising on the Internet.

On the one hand businesses are becoming established that rely on these vehicles being available, but on the other hand businesses that have made a significant investment in becoming a RAW are finding it difficult to compete against the sale of over 15 year old vehicles.

Option 2 - From 1 January 2005 allow only vehicles manufactured prior to 1

January 1989, to be imported.

This option:

• provides a period of transition for businesses already established to import 15 or

more years old vehicles;

• allows vehicles manufactured before 1 January 1989 or earlier to be imported

without restriction;

• restricts the importing of vehicles manufactured after 1 January 1989 which may

not meet the later safety and emissions performance requirements;

• allows vehicles manufactured after 1 January 1989 listed on the Register of

Specialist and Enthusiast Vehicles (the Register), to be imported by a Registered

Automotive Workshop; and

• maintains the intent of the provisions to allow historic or specialist vehicles to be

imported.

Option 3 - From 1 January 2005 allow only vehicles 30 or more years old to be imported without restriction.

This option:

• aligns to the Australian Vehicle Standards Rule that allows registration of lefthand drive vehicles over 30 years old, without conversion to right-hand drive;

− some jurisdictions allow registration of left-hand drive vehicles that are less

than 30 years old;

• would significantly reduce the number of older vehicles entering Australia;

however, some enthusiast vehicles older than 1989 but less than 30 years would

be unavailable; and

• would allow for vehicles less than 30 years old that are listed on the Register to be imported and plated under the Registered Automotive Workshop Scheme.

[rockysilvia]

sorry, rocksilvia this is taken DIRECT from the Governments submission and therefore the government's position: "The intent of this arrangement when it was introduced was to provide for the importation of older vehicles on the basis that they were generally imported for restoration and club use."

yes predator, I never said that it wasn't their 'position'..... NOW. it is not the original legislation though is it? why didn't they or you quote that? the words 'intent' and 'generally' are pretty vague words. once again its up to interpretation. what the government is doing now is backpedalling.

and this legislation was passed in 1992? so they have had 14 odd years to realise that their rules didn't represent their original 'intention'!?!?!?! yeah right.....

i have no doubts the government will change the rules to suit their own wishes and motives. what I am saying is that anyone here crying foul that they are going to get ripped if they don't change the rules is putting up a very weak excuse. the rule has been around and has been used with in the same manner for years without government intervention.

[DRIFTT]

that is not a government rule or legislation! do you actually have the government literature/ammendment details? rather than simply cutting and pasting someones interpretation/personal opinion on the matter!  

so you are telling me every car that has already been brought in under this rule in the last few years (r31's come to mind) has been brought in for restoration or club use?? i don't think so! the government approves them to be brought in and lets them be registered like any other car.  

there has been a precedent set for years. it is no different now, simply the cars available have changed.

The reason the government can do what they want is because they are only enforcing the rules that are in place not making new ones.

Same as the age of vehicle ruling it was always 15 years not 14 years and 2 months so they enforced the rules because people pushed it.

With CPA you where supose to have an ISO system in place but no body did and the Government had enough because people pushed it.

If the cars that were brought in were not damaged, stolen, half one car half another and within the rules the system whould of not been hit so hard but because people pushed it.

If you want to make comment study all the leglislation, ADR's, rulings, RAWS Guide, Determinations to start with and then spend two years working on setting up RAWS workshops, then make comments that wont be laughed at like Let Damaged cars come in.

And unless you represent people in the industry nobody who makes the decisions cares what you think it is a fact not taking a dig at anybody.

I knew about this over two months ago, the decision is made.

[rockysilvia]

If you want to make comment study all the leglislation, ADR's, rulings, RAWS Guide, Determinations to start with and then spend two years working on setting up RAWS workshops, then make comments that wont be laughed at like Let Damaged cars come in.

I can't recall sayin that anywhere.............

[The_Paladin]

I DON'T want the Skyline to be a cheap car.

I DON'T want 17 year olds driving $20,000 GTRs

I DON'T want everyone driving Skylines because there are 40,000 of them in the country and the market oversaturation have driven the price down so any old joe-blow can own one.

there you go! you said it yourself! you dont want skylines to go down in price, why?? cause you have one so f%$k the rest of us.

not having 17 year olds in GTR's is the only thing you have wich actually benifits people other than yourself. newsflash mate HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE NORTH SHORE? it dosent matter how expensive they get rich parents will still buy their kids one, even if they dont they will get the loans off banks. i agree with you that 17 yearolds in GTR's is a bad thing, but fighting it in the import law arena is just plain weird..........power/age restriction laws are the best bet, i'm all for that and think they should be brought in.........problem with 17 yearolds in GTR's solved.....

"giving our community a ban name after taking a corner at 2nd gear redline and writing off his R33 GTR."

another mines rip

i reckon oversaturation would kick arse, more parts lying around, cheaper cars and the jap import community would be see as less of a taboo. like i said before, a major benifit of there being more jap cars is it is harder to generalise a larger group of people than a smaller group.........people would have less standing in saying all skyline drivers are hoons cause more adverage joes would buy the cars, and not give a s%$t about speeding in them or wanting them to go fast. probbaly get less harassment from the cops..........

but all those 32's around would make you feel a bit less special driving a skyline hey? i get the feeling there is a strong elitest culture for those wanting to scrap the rule..........

[predator]

And unless you represent people in the industry nobody who makes the decisions cares what you think it is a fact not taking a dig at anybody. I knew about this over two months ago, the decision is made

True, if you notice really the submissions document .. its not really for the public anyhow

see: To assist in this analysis, your comments should include any likely effect of the options proposed, on your particular business. Please return the Options Paper to the Department by 27 February 2004..

(although *** it i'm replying anyhow)

if you say "i'm not going to vote Liberal next election because of this" they might take it a little differently however.. they like votes.

What decision do you think that will be Drifft? will it be the wonderful door behind option #3 or option #2 ?

[Duncan]

My 2yen (only 0.25c) is the 15 year rule is a top way to get hold of a cheap car, and who wouldn't like to pay less for a car. If you pay less in the first place it wont hurt as much when you come to sell it.

And if you think I don't understand the new car/old car depreciation merry-go-round, I've bought a $7k nissan and a $70k nissan this month....

But....there's no point about us talking in this thread.....those who support it need to send submissions to DOTARS.

And one last point, DOTARS are not politicians and don't give a sh*t about votes. They are public servant who just know they are way understaffed and scared of the workload they see coming....

[GTR R35]

It is funny that the ONLY reason I have seen to support the current 15yo law is to get cheap cars.

What you do all not see is that they are cheap because they are C R A P

They have hardly seen a workshop for servicing and most have had their milage fiddled as there are no restrictions as to what is required to import these cars. Having RAWS importers bringing in 15+yo cars would at least give some assurance of the reputation of the importer.

Having 12,000+ Jap crappy cars on australian roads this year scares the crap out of me especially since they are not cheap to fix or insure.....

There is only a very limited supply of quality 15yo cars in japan, and I would say most have already been exported to NZ or OZ years ago, we are now scraping the bottom of the barrel as people are blindly buying these cars sight unseen from a auction list....and guess what, once you own it you cannot send it back. I own a 15yo VR4 Galant and it is the biggest piece of crap.....it only had 54,000km on the clock, but it is not a well looked after car, and I got the best of the bunch....It looked ok, but within a month it was falling apart.....At least I have a 3 year warranty :-)

I feel very sorry for people who think they are buying a bargain 15yo GTR or whatever only to find their $20k GTR will cost them $10k more to make it roadworthy.....would have been better to buy a local one, at least you have a chance to speak to the owner and have a good look before you pay out your hard earned....

The 15yo rule is not about cheap quality cars, its about the importation of garbage that will be littering our roads for years to come. The quicker this loophole is closed the better.

[DRIFTT]

What decision do you think that will be Drifft? will it be the wonderful door behind option #3 or option #2 ?

I am 99.9% sure it will be option #2 but I am not saying I agree with it 100%.

It has been highlighted to me a couple of views from people that count that they would back options like,

Hands of RAWS cars to start with,

Only let certain Power to weight vehicles in like RX7 or Aristo turbo's in,

Only a RAWS import and comply the vehicle to the same safety standards,

The cap is 18,000 vehicles so if a RAWS wants to bring in a clean Series 6 RX7 instead of a 94 Soarer let them,

No 4WD's, Van's, Busses's or comerical vehicles as they are the vehicles upsetting the Big Companys.

As you can see these are fair requests but due to people pumping anything into the country to make a quick buck weather it was a Car Yard, Broker or back yard importer it is to late.

When somebody tryies to sell you a Crown for 140,000 yen FOB and the FOB fee is 100,000 yen and 40,000 yen equals under $500 what type of car are you buying.

So when people are trying to sell you cars like that what else do you expect to happen.

As far as most people I know who count according to the Government, the middle men and people skating around the law have caused what is happening.

[Merli]

I was going to reply to everyone who asked me a question in reply to one of my posts... but you guys aren't even listening to what I'm saying, and just extracting parts of my sentences and taking them out of context and then calling me out on them.

At the end of the day, I would like to limit the number of dirt cheap skylines entering Australia, because I don't want 16 year olds writing them off (adversely affecting the car enthusiast scene), and I don't want my car to depreciate prematurely (adversely affecting my bank account balance)...

Even if this 15 year old rule is scrapped (and I'll bet anyone here that it will be either scrapped or changed), there will still be plenty of japanese import cars for future owners to choose from, be it from cars already in australia or those still being imported through SEVS... It's not like scrapping the 15 year old rule will stop the flow of skylines entering our market. It will only stop the flow of dirt cheap ones that don't have to go through compliance.

Elitist, selfish, whatever... call it what you want. I call it looking after my own interests as an owner and car enthusiast.

Here ends my partaking in this fruitless and endless discussion between two groups who have completely opposite goals regarding the importation of japanese cars.

Thanks for the interesting chat guys, and I mean that...

[zsky]

its all good and well for people who have for examples r33's and r34's to have the 15yr rule scrapped but not everyone can afford to buy one and if my r31 was written off for some reason i would like to be able to import another one.

[GTR R35]

its all good and well for people who have for examples r33's and r34's to have the 15yr rule scrapped but not everyone can afford to buy one and if my r31 was written off for some reason i would like to be able to import another one.

Why import one ?

There are plenty already in the country......

[zsky]

there aren't heaps of passages too choose from compared to r33's and if i want to import another passage i should be allowed to and no one can stop me

[DRIFTT]

its all good and well for people who have for examples r33's and r34's to have the 15yr rule scrapped but not everyone can afford to buy one and if my r31 was written off for some reason i would like to be able to import another one.

If your R31 is 1988 or older you will always be able to replace it so dont worry.

[zsky]

yep my r31 is a 88 model

as long as opition 2 is picked being able to imports cars upto 1988 i'll be happy