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R35 E85 Roll Call....

domino_z

By domino_z,
in R35 GTR

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domino_z Mentor

domino_z

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi guys

So who here is now tuned for and running E85

Please post your feedback, both good and bad

There is alot of stories floating around about long term effects on the car, the inconsistency with the quality of E85 etc

And for those that are running it, what supporting mods do you have - which brand injectors, fuel pumps, who did the tune....

I may be double'ing up here, but figured this thread could serve as a running guide/feedback for E85

Edited by domino_z
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https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/361512-r35-e85-roll-call/
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LSX-438 Mentor

LSX-438

Posted
Posted

Dom, Willall set me up with an E85 tune. I am running the DW 950's and upgraded fuel pumps. Currently i have switched back to 98 as i am not racing as much this year. No problems with the E85 tune. I've only used the E85 from United from Rozelle, i havent tried the Caltex variety, which i am told is more variable. Btw i picked up about 45awkw with the e85 alone, and the only other supporting mods i have are Willall catback and carbon intake snorkels.

Martin Donnon Mentor

Martin Donnon

Posted
Posted

We were the first in Australia to run E85 on the GTR (second in the world I think) so we have plenty of experience in the area. Customers like LSX-438 simply switch between fuels using their cruise control buttons. Its quite elegant. If in Sydney the Rozelle E85 is the - only - fuel we could recommend from the pump, some other E85s have proven to be E60 when tested.

domino_z Mentor

domino_z

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

How much of the existing fuel in the tank do you need to consume before switching over

Does it matter there is still some 98 in the lines and tank when changing maps or do you need to run the tank completely dry

I'm in Melbourne but I'm assuming there'd be a United here with e85?

Is the dw injectors and dw pumps all that's needed?

Edited by domino_z
Marko R1 Grand Master

Marko R1

Posted
Posted

We were the first in Australia to run E85 on the GTR (second in the world I think) so we have plenty of experience in the area. Customers like LSX-438 simply switch between fuels using their cruise control buttons. Its quite elegant. If in Sydney the Rozelle E85 is the - only - fuel we could recommend from the pump, some other E85s have proven to be E60 when tested.

if e85 drops to e60 quality, what is variance in ron?

this is the danger with e85 in that your car can be tuned for e85, however, if the octane drops can be detrimental

domino_z Mentor

domino_z

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Martin is there any gain to be had on 98Ron with larger injectors and pumps? What would that do to fuel consumption? Can you tune those with an e-tune using the cobb datalogging?

Living and working in the cbd I'm averaging around 350km to a full tank

Edited by domino_z
SS8_Gohan Grand Master

SS8_Gohan

Posted
Posted

domino, Hoppers Crossing is the only United with E85 in Melb, but they like Fueltown @ Southland are having supply issues due to the floods. Southland expects 6-9months before they start pumping their E85 again and they thought Hoppers were poss having some issues as well.

Trent @ Status (Chequered) Tuning has been playing with E85 for a couple years now, he did my GTT about 2 years ago for the stuff and has done them constantly since, including quite a few competition drifters. He found the Southland E85 to be slightly better than the United E85, but interestingly hasn't found much difference with Caltex's E-Flex - even if only E70 for the cooler months (so around now i would guess) AFR's only changed a little and power was practically unaffected.

Caltex will give you a lot more pumping options too, unless you live near Hoppers. I certainly don't miss doing the near 2 hour round trip to Hoppers with the GTT :D

domino_z Mentor

domino_z

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Gohan I google's the hoppers station and it's a 60km round trip

Southland is definitely closer, about half the distance

When you decide to fill with e85 can you just add it to your 98ron or do you need to drain the tank, do you then drive for a few kms before switching the map over.

I know all about the execution but don't know how it's actually done in practice.

SS8_Gohan Grand Master

SS8_Gohan

Posted
Posted

i'm not 100% sure on that as i ran E85 exclusively on the GTT - to be honest, i really don't see a drama with there being a little 98 left in the lines tank etc - at the end of the day it's just fuel and the afr's/timing has been changed to suit. I don't see having 95% E85 and 5% 98 is going to cause massive det or other problems. 'E85' varies in % anyway and peoples E85 tunes aren't causing blow-ups etc, so natural variability isn't causing an issue, i'm sure a little 98 mixed in would be ok.

Prob just run as low as you can, fill up E85 or 98, take it easy for the first few kms.

The United and Southland E85's aren't exactly 85% all the time anyway and we never had any issues, and the new owner of my GTT in Canberra is now on E-Flex and had no issues with Trent's Southland E85 tune - so the % of ethanol might change normally anyway, and because most tuners won't tune to the ragged edge, you should be fine :)

Maybe have a chat to Trent about it, i'm sure he'll be able to let you know exactly what the deal is

fungoolie Community Regular

fungoolie

Posted
Posted

Martin and/or others,

When you tune for E85, assuming that the new injector flow and latency parameters are all input without any fudging any other tables does the fuel consumption computer still read true flow and therefore still provide accurate fuel consumption readings? And assuming no other mods other than say a midpipe what would be the smallest injector you would get away with? I imagine all you achieve by going excessively big is less fine/accurate control at low flow rates possibly making your fuel economy slightly worse?

SS8_Gohan Grand Master

SS8_Gohan

Posted
Posted

fungoolie: the newer style injectors are fine even at massive sizes. Running ID1000's or ID2000's will give you plenty of control despite the size. Google 'injector dynamics' if you haven't heard of them. Of course, Ethanol friendly as well. Quite a lot of 'big' injectors choices these though due to the greater availability worldwide of E85

But it sounds like Willal have come up with a very elegant solution with the cruise control button so that's probably your best bet as it's been all figured out (like the Evo owners who have one of the factory buttons somewhere 'remapped' to the fuel map switcher) I'm sure Martin can confirm the best procedure in terms of 'when' to switch, ie how low you have to be on whatever fuel you're running.

phat mr30: nothing wrong with pump E85 - yes the drum stuff has tighter quality control, but if there was only "crap" coming out of E85 pumps then we would have seen A LOT of problems now. There a bunch of street cars, track cars, drift cars running pump E85, for a few years now and i haven't heard of any widespread issues, which you would expect if it was crap.

I know some people have filled up 700L of 'pump' southland E85 to keep in a tank near/at racetracks.

I get the impression that some of the 'race only' E85 producers like to push a certain agenda regarding pump E85 to justify the $2.50'ish per litre price.

Martin Donnon Mentor

Martin Donnon

Posted
Posted

Martin and/or others,

When you tune for E85, assuming that the new injector flow and latency parameters are all input without any fudging any other tables does the fuel consumption computer still read true flow and therefore still provide accurate fuel consumption readings? And assuming no other mods other than say a midpipe what would be the smallest injector you would get away with? I imagine all you achieve by going excessively big is less fine/accurate control at low flow rates possibly making your fuel economy slightly worse?

With the new Injector Scaling and Load calc code that John Banks has written into the Cobb software for the R35 the injector reporting function back to the 'Fuel Used Out' channel should and does stay exactly in phase. Between switchable maps in the R35 its possible to have discrete injector scaling, which means both E85 and 98 octane will report correctly on the dashboard. A nice and cheerful injector that does the job properly with good physical properties is the Deatschwerks 950cc. This will give you capability up to 500awkw on E85. Thankfully since we are talking about a properly specced factory ECU, there is no loss of injector control with a 950 on board - or at least none that we can measure :)

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