New Engine Blown Up At Tuners

[Beer Baron]

you guys are harsh. I agree he's nuts to think the tuner would owe him an engine if the thing detonated on the dyno but there's no real evidence he's done something wrong yet.

first thing.

do a compression test and a leak down test to see what you're dealing with.

then take it from there if needed.

actually, do that second. first of all clean up all the oil sprayed everywhere and then double check the crankcase ventilation system is hooked up correctly. it could be as simple as breathers not connected correctly and pressurising the crankcase. I've seen that before....

[Beer Baron]

you're all right joe blo! but you're a knuckle head for thinking the tuner owes you a new engine. just get ya hands dirty again and start figuring out what's wrong. don't jump off the deep end and pull it out just yet. you've already said it's not making any funny noises and it's still running. so with the symptoms so far being oil in engine bay, high idle and a bit reluctant to start I'd be looking at the basics and work your way up from there.

PS good on you for having a go. just don't be so quick with the blame!

[joe blo]

ok. il start doing stuff tomorrow. i was just hinking if there was a policy about blowing up a new motor (if it was infact caused by tuner error) as hees the only guy thats had it running and on his tune.

will be interesting to find out whats happening

can we rule out headgasket being blown from the symptoms shown?

well the fuel lines were hooked up the wrong way in the engine bay by the mechanic (guy next to the guy tuning it) so maybe it could be the crankcase ventilation is also hooked up wrong.

i had got it up to 20 psi boost cut a few times prior to the final tune after i took it back. he said it was rich as so i dont think any problems were caused there. and there were NO signd of oil at all coming out the breathers.

good work beer barron. providing usefull information. not just saying "your shit joe blo" based of nothing at all really

[XKLABA]

what Baron said, good for you having a go at your own car and not just paying someone else to do it for you,which any tool can do, i'd say after doing what Baron said and if there is a problem in the engine it would most likely be in the bottom end probley rings which i believe you said the machine shop did, so no fault of yours.

the engine in my R32 was built by completely by myself in my garden shed ( new rings bearings and head gasket, making 1 engine from 2 broken ones) and i have had no training at all and it has ran a hand full of low 11s and been in car for over a year, so whats wrong with DIY and slapping it together

.

[XKLABA]

aren't Mahle pistons fordged or just some of them

[joe blo]

just some. mine are definately cast. $245 or something

[Beer Baron]

yeah no worries. definitely start with the basics. trouble shoot it properly before you rip it out. apart from the stuff I mentioned (crankcase ventilation etc) yes it could well be rings not sealing (puts pressure into the crankcase and sends oil and vapour to spots where it shouldn't be!). but cross off the basics first. compression test and leakdown test will give you a fair idea of whether or not it's rings.

if the rings are not sealing/bedded in properly and you and the tuner have followed what the machine shop recommended for run in procedure then they may help you fix it since the problem could point at their work. I doubt they'll buy you a new engine but they may help with discount on their services or something to get it fixed. there are just too many variables to pin blame on one person. you worked on it, machine shop worked on it, mechanic worked on it, tuner tuned it. no way to pin it down to just 1 cause unless it's very, very clear what the problem is and how it was exactly caused.

hopefully you'll find something basic wrong in the install and go from there.

[tridentt150v]

As beer baron says do a compression test - motor needs to be warm for this. Then after the 'dry' compression test, squirt a bit of oil into each cylinder and do the test again. This will tell you if its rings - if you get the same result and its high for both tests then its not your rings, if its higher after the oil then its rings.

One thing to remember when doing a test is to do all the cylinders the same way. And don't wind the motor over heaps of times before you take a reading, all your doing is getting a cumulative pressure which will tell you zip.

If it isn't rings then you start to look at valves and guides - but I'm not sure thats your problem.

[AngryRB]

+1 to beer barons comments

no need for so much negativity towards joe, you done a good job and put it together

it sounds more like the guys that bored the block and gapped the rings etc.. you just put it together, so how is it all your fault?? gees

Sounds like the bores could be poorly machined and rough as hell and the rings poorly gapped or just not sealing off very well, ive had that before when i left it in the hands on a machine shop, some of them are obviously rough necks that do an shit job of it, im not saying they have, just saying its quite possible.. Cant trust workshops to give you perfect clearances, always double check there work cause its a precision job, not a rough neck, she'll be right process.

450rwhp sounds pretty decent though, doesnt sound that bad to throw in the towel on it.. and not tuners fault, he cant control blow by and oil control..

so like beer baron said, compression test will likely show up whats going on

good luck and stick with it..

[Newy]

He owes you nothing. If it hasn't been assembled correctly, with wrong tolerances it could easily damage the pistions, bore, rods, crank, valves, etc.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but when your pushing things beyond how they were initially designed theres always a possibility it will go bad. particularly when your not 100% sure what your doing TBH either way, you wont get a cent

[Newy]

^ I do however agree with the above. Good effort for having a go, its the only way to learn

[AngryRB]

He owes you nothing. If it hasn't been assembled correctly, with wrong tolerances it could easily damage the pistions, bore, rods, crank, valves, etc.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but when your pushing things beyond how they were initially designed theres always a possibility it will go bad. particularly when your not 100% sure what your doing TBH either way, you wont get a cent

i think he gets it now, its not the tuners fault,

how has he not assembled it right?? it ran, its not noisey, its massive blowby thats the prob

the standard parts are supposed to be fine for 500hp plus, so hes done nothing but put the thing together , the mechanics measured and assembled the important measurements not him..

[T04GTR]

do the comp test and leakage tests. go from there. everything else is guesswork without those results. hey in my r32gtr the front turbo thrust bearing let go and pumped 2 litres of oil out the breathers into the catch can in 1 old pac run.. (boost blowing into crankcase via oil drain... go figure.)

[joe blo]

im not sure if i have a pcv valve on it anymore. i just have all the breahters pipes open with nothing on them and a hole in one of the cam covers where something was removed (maybe pcv valve?). was going to hook up catchcan. wasnt expecting any blow-by

does this mean i can rule out the pcv not connected properly as a possible problem?

the first go at tuning with wastegate not hooked up it made a max of 327rwhp with no oil or anything at all coming out of the cam covers and nothing in the 200kms i drove it around on the road with the 20psi boost cut coming in around 4000rpm

[joe blo]

remember the problem started after the first power pull. smoke came out the back (think he said that) and he saw it coming out under the bonnet. it wasnt oil covered in the engine bay when i picked it up. it was just puffing white smoke out the breathers.

i gave it one pull through 2nd and abit of 3rd on the way home. and one quick one in second up a hill and when i got home theres oil everywhere.

i dont think we can blame it on the machinist boring and honing and stuff. its where the guy that tuned it gets his machine work done for his race engines that he mainly does.

just started it when i got home a few minutes ago and the white smoke sorta chugs out in quick breath sorta things in time with the engine. like its not continous sorta thing.

head is a rebuilt one new for this motor. was a $750 rebuild so whatever that price one usually does it what got done.

the rings were VERY brittle when i was putting them on the pistons. i broke one coz i put it on upside down. it was a bottom one and i tried to open it up to go over the top one that was already installed and it broke so easily. maybe they dont like 450rwhp. its weird to me that it would happen on the very first power run. like to me that maybe suggests 1 or more rings might have broken. but i dont know how brittle standard nissan ones or any other ones are to compare to. i did think to myself that i thought they might not like big power coz i snapped the one i broke a few times after i broke it initially to get an idea of the metal integrity

thanks to the good dudes so far. to the homos. yous stink

Edited July 29, 2011 by joe blo

[N1GTR]

Do the tests on it, if they come up with acceptable results then it's sounding like oil control. Stick an oil air separator on there with the return going to the sump or the turbo drain them see how it goes

[joe blo]

ok.

when i do the compression test should i just let it crank about 5 times or something each cylinder?

do i leakdown test each cylinder? never done one before. done compression tests but

Edited July 29, 2011 by joe blo

[Room42]

remember the problem started after the first power pull. smoke came out the back (think he said that) and he saw it coming out under the bonnet. it wasnt oil covered in the engine bay when i picked it up. it was just puffing white smoke out the breathers. Burnt oil smoke in the crankcase.

i gave it one pull through 2nd and abit of 3rd on the way home. and one quick one in second up a hill and when i got home theres oil everywhere. Crankcase pressure.

i dont think we can blame it on the machinist boring and honing and stuff. its where the guy that tuned it gets his machine work done for his race engines that he mainly does. Agreed, its almost definitely not the machining job.

just started it when i got home a few minutes ago and the white smoke sorta chugs out in quick breath sorta things in time with the engine. like its not continous sorta thing. Not continuous but in time indicates only one or a couple of cylinders burning oil.

head is a rebuilt one new for this motor. was a $750 rebuild so whatever that price one usually does it what got done. It is what it is

the rings were VERY brittle when i was putting them on the pistons. i broke one coz i put it on upside down. it was a bottom one and i tried to open it up to go over the top one that was already installed and it broke so easily. maybe they dont like 450rwhp. its weird to me that it would happen on the very first power run. like to me that maybe suggests 1 or more rings might have broken. but i dont know how brittle standard nissan ones or any other ones are to compare to. i did think to myself that i thought they might not like big power coz i snapped the one i broke a few times after i broke it initially to get an idea of the metal integrity Same thing happened to a mates 350rwhp 308 holden. Rings broke on install. Engine broke like yours after run in and given a hiding. Massive blow by. Haven't pulled aprt completely yet but the heads are off and there are scratches in 3 of the bores. No rattles apart from broken flex plate and broken uni joint from harsh 1st to 2nd change.

thanks to the good dudes so far. to the homos. yous stink I guess it depends which part you are smelling aye?

[Room42]

ok.

when i do the compression test should i just let it crank about 5 times or something each cylinder?

With a compression test you should have the throttle completely open and crank it till it reaches its highest reading. That will happen pretty quickly but don't worry about counting the engine turns. Make sure all of the other plugs are out so it turns freely. Also make sure that you don't wash your bores. Stop the fuel getting in the cylinders.

[STATUS]

comp test it then if its no good pull engine and remove the head, if its assembly error i reckon you will see grab marks in the bores (from butted rings etc)... if its tune related you will see pitted pistons.

what ecu btw?