Intercooler Choice

[slayer]

Hi guys, anyone here had any experience with a Greddy Intercooler?

The guys at PerfectRun have the kits very cheap compared to say HKS, Apexi or even local kits like ARE or SubZero.

For a R33 running a stock turbo ( potentially wil hi-flow it later) and PowerFC with boost controller, exhaust and intake mods whats the pick?

I dont want to limit my options too much in the future in terms of of flow rate, and I don't think I will be going the route of new injectors, fel pump and turbo (well if my girlfriend has anything to say on it ) so I think a responsive intercooler will be better than a monstrous power handler that has high pressure drop.

Comments?

[Guest nismogtsx]

Spend about $1500 and you will have a good cooler

Spend $2000 and you will have an awsome cooler

Spend $2500 and you will have a race spec cooler.....

Simple.... How much is enough???

[skyzerr33]

slayer

what power level you aiming for and what price have you been quoted for the blitz kit?

[rev210]

buy the ic right for your horsepower goal.

go too big and you get less horsepower and reduced throttle response.

the price for your ic is not the important part. you will get the worst intercooler imaginable for the most money if your power goals are not 'wild'. The more expensive the ic is the larger it is in most brands.Run a racespec cooler without the race spec motor and a race to go to and you will be sorry.

I'd say that the greddy ic would be more than enough.

[slayer]

Thanks for the responses.

I am looking for 180-200Kw at the wheels, which I believe is about the best you can hope for safely with the stock turbo (with the right ecu, ebc, exhaust, intercooler and intake).

For this sort of output I would assume I am looking at around 270-280kw at the flywheel?

The guys at ARE are providing me some great info, supposedly their tube and fin design in the stage 1 kit is now providing a higher cooling effect than their current bar and plate design (and with considerably less pressure drop) and is rated coservatively to 300Kw, up to around 330Kw is where they would suggest stepping up to their larger intercooler.

I am unsure what sort of rating the Greddy has, but its price is certainly interesting.

If anyone has any info on the ARE gear I am considering that a serious choice (although its around 2K for a complete kit so little more pricey than the Greddy).

[Guest INASNT]

have u considered getting a second hand gtr cooler? they r good for 300kw@wheels!!

[rev210]

Originally posted by slayer

Thanks for the responses.

I am unsure what sort of rating the Greddy has, but its price is certainly interesting.

If anyone has any info on the ARE gear I am considering that a serious choice (although its around 2K for a complete kit so little more pricey than the Greddy).

The greddy would be a better choice budget wise and I dare say performance wise as well.

[BOOSTMEISTER]

If anyone has any info on the ARE gear I am considering that a serious choice (although its around 2K for a complete kit so little more pricey than the Greddy).

If they were the same dollars then go for the ARE item, if the ARE item is a small amount more then still buy it, if the GReddy one is heaps cheaper then go for it. The ARE one has HPC coated pipes which is one of the main reasons for the price, it is worth it.

I am a huge supporter of ARE products as many on here would know, I do believe that they make the best product in OZ by far and will continue to support them. I (DUEL) have purchased 6 coolers from them ranging from their base model to a fully custom one with PRO options.

[skyzerr33]

Originally posted by INASNT

have u considered getting a second hand gtr cooler? they r good for 300kw@wheels!!

thats the way i went. fitted for $1500 - minus what i can sell the stock cooler for.

[skyzerr33]

Originally posted by INASNT

have u considered getting a second hand gtr cooler? they r good for 300kw@wheels!!

thats the way i went. fitted for $1500 - minus what i can sell the stock cooler for.

[slayer]

Skyzerr33 - where did you source the second hand intercooler, and how can you make sure its clean etc and not going to cause an issue for your engine (I have heard some nasty stories about secondhand intercoolers, mostly from intercoooler vendors though )

The GTR cooler is a bar and plate unit, what sort of pressure drop does it generate?

The boss (my girlfriend) is pretty touchy about spending money on mods as it is, so a cheap but effective option is always a good choice

$1500 fitted... hmmm, the Greddy option is $1600 plus freight to WA, and then either fitting cost ( around $150 ish?) or do it myself... pretty close call.

Thanks

Conrad

[BOOSTMEISTER]

Actually the GTR cooler isn't a B&P cooler infact it uses the same core design as the stock 32 gtst cooler only bigger. I have read a few tests and have found that a VR4/EVo cooler is just as good infact in some tests it rated higher.....Richard from ARE told me that the VR4 cooler is a very good design and is probably the best flowing factory cooler available.

[Zahos]

I dont suppose you could point me to some of those tests cam? I bought one not long ago and I was curious, and I haven't been able to find any test on the web!

[Guest INASNT]

there is a difference between the r32 and r33 gtr coolers!

the r33 is apparently meant to flow alot better then the r32!

[BOOSTMEISTER]

INASNT Yes I believe that is correct as well as the V-Spec II R32 GTR coolers.

Zahos I think it was on AUTOSPEED.COM I will have a look through some saved links and see if I can find it, it was a good test with a number of coolers tested.

[macka]

As rev210 suggested dont buy too big!

600x300x75 or smaller will be good for 200rwkw

Any bigger and u will suffer more lag with no power gain

[skyzerr33]

Slayer - i got the coola from one of the WA guys who was selling it. he didn't need it anymore.

Its a 600x300x60 core (brand new made by the people who make the intercoola's for the Rivoli WRX's) with custom R33 GTR style end tanks. basically a new coola for half the price.

[turbomad]

Slayer, I'm using a HYBRID brand intercooler 600x300x75 is the core size, they retail for around $880. I managed 188rwkw @12psi with stock turbo and SAFC, so I can say they definately work, and there is no apparent lag from the longer intercooler pipes needed either. As far as pressure drop is concerned they rate them a 0.5psi drop @15psi. From memory the website was www.hybrid-developments.com.au

[Zahos]

It's not just the size of the core that counts but the cross sectional area of the tubes, and the number of tubes your cooler has running accross as well.

For example (extreme case), if you had an intercooler that was 3 meters high, 7 meters long and with 14 100mm pipes used as the tubes to do the cooling, I'd imagine that you would have an extreme case of lag and that your car would be undrivable because of the time it would take for your turbo to preasurise or fill that intercooler full of air before you reach the desired level of preassure in the plenum chamber! Not to mention that since your engine will be working on suction at this stage it would be sucking air from the cooler as the turbo is pumping air in! So with this cooler, you may never reach any decent boost.

Now with a more realistic example, imagine a cooler 800 X 600 x 100, and with tubes that have a large cross sectional area. With a cooler this size, you would eventually reach desired boost, but because the cross sectional area of your intercooler is greater than the cross sectional area of your pipes running to and from the cooler, the turbo will have to spend a little time filling the cooler with air, until the preasure in the intercooler is equal to the preasure in the plumbing. Only after this happens you will reach full boost in the plenum.

So you can have a "bigger" cooler, but if you do, then you should make sure that the tubes of that cooler are also in proportion for the kind of power you are aiming for, so that the cross sectional area of your cooler is equal to the cross sectional area of your pipework.

[BOOSTMEISTER]

I am going to be very nasty here but it must be said.

HYBRID coolers are made from Garrett truck cores (Bar & Plate) Yes they do only have a small pressure drop but this is due to the very large tubes inside the core. What this means is that at higher psi (13 or higher) there overall efficiency falls off wuite rapidly as the air doesn't have time to cool as well. A well sized tube and fin cooler is the way to go. The ARE item on my mates RBS13 reduced the ambient air temp of 27oC to only 4oC at the throttlebody. While lack of pressure drop is important it is more important that the cooler actually cools well. It may be possible for Turbomad to actually make MORE power with a better cooler.

At the end of the day it is your money and your car. MOST aftermarket coolers are better than the stock one but be carefull, buying a bar and plate cooler with those dimentions for only $880 means it must be lacking in some areas. If you don't intend on running more than 13psi all the time then it will probably be OK. Just make sure the inside of the tanks are welded as well as the outside or the end tanks can litterally tear apart. Also make sure it doesn't leak. NO Garrett core is designed to be 100% leak free (this is from Garrett them selves) so ensure it is pressure tested before you buy ANY cooler, it takes great skill and time to repair cores so make sure it is done by someone who knows what they are doing.