Car Running Like A Hairy Goat

[copycutter]

Ok, I recently noticed coolant spewing into the passenger footwell of my car, and after reading articles on SAU I realised the heater core was shagged, which a mechanic confirmed and explained I could just buy a join and bypass it until I can replace the core.

After bypassing it with a sort of u-turn join I made up I was bleeding the cooling system of air using a funnel attached to the radiator and the bleed nipple. While I was bleeding the air from the bleed nipple, I dropped the screw and while I was trying to find it I had coolant spewing everywhere from the bleed hole. I shut it off after about 10-15 seconds when I realised I couldn't quickly find the screw. When I eventually found it, I carried on bleeding the system but noticed the car was missing at idle pretty heavily. When I then revved it, I noticed it missing heavily during revving too, and after letting the throttle off the car started idling like a bloody drag car - hunting up then nearly stalling etc.

After discussing with a friend, we thought maybe some sensor had gotten wet with the coolant from the bleed nipple when I dropped the screw, so I left it a couple days and tried again today. I took the rocker valley cover and while idling from cold tried removing each coil pack plug to identify which cylinder was missing. Each cylinder's behaviour when removing and replacing the coil plug was the same, and the idle seemed better now that it was cold. I started driving it around the block and it was horrible, jerking and spitting constantly - basically undriveable. I checked the PFC hand controller sensor check and saw black dots on IGN, ECS and NTR.

I think IGN is ignition, ECS is the ECCS and NTR is supposedly a neutral switch?!?

Anyone got any ideas as to what the hell is going on with the car? It seems pretty strange that this problem has happened just as I'm dealing with the leaking heater core issue, but I guess it's possible...

[R31 POWER]

Coolant get on the coil packs?

[copycutter]

Don't know for sure had the valley cover on when the coolant spilled out. The bleed nipple is higher and nearby the inlet rocker cover so it's possible.

Edited April 1, 2012 by copycutter

[Moodles2]

Everything you need to know about the PFC: http://paulr33.com/powerfc-faq/powerfc-faq.htm

[Scott Black]

you havnt somehow knocked off a intercooler pipe or something, as the car will run like shit if one of those pipes get loose, otherwise yeah alot of coolant over the coils will cause big issues, also pull out and check all the plugs to ensure there not fouled or anything

[copycutter]

Thanks Moodles; I've looked at the site before and I understand what the 3 letter codes mean in Engligh, just not what to do about it.

Where specifically on the car/ engine bay do you look at if your hand controller is showing ECS and IGN error?

Edited April 2, 2012 by copycutter

[copycutter]

Ok so I checked the coils and plugs, put it all back together and still same issue, heavy misfire on idle and with revving - very uneven.

I did the sensor check on the FC hand controller and noticed that the NTR was indeed neutral gear (goes away when you put it in gear) but the ECS (ECCS) and IGN (Ignition) dots were still blacked out, and also the F/P light (Fuel Pump) light was on too.

Anyone else have any suggestions as to what it might be?

[R.3.2.G.T.R]

Ok so I checked the coils and plugs, put it all back together and still same issue, heavy misfire on idle and with revving - very uneven.

I did the sensor check on the FC hand controller and noticed that the NTR was indeed neutral gear (goes away when you put it in gear) but the ECS (ECCS) and IGN (Ignition) dots were still blacked out, and also the F/P light (Fuel Pump) light was on too.

Anyone else have any suggestions as to what it might be?

u sure u reading PFC right, IIRC it doesnt matter if the dot is black or not as it only indicates something in use or not, if its a failure, the whole text will have a black background indicating fault

is that whats showing for ECS and IGN?

[copycutter]

That may make more sense.

It's showing black dot for IGN, ECS, F/P and NTR when I first start it.

Then if I put in the clutch and put it in gear the NTR one goes off.

Could this be my CAS is stuffed? It runs badly enough just around my block in 2nd that I wouldn't think I can get it to a tuners to look at easily enough, and the towing cost would be obscene. It just bucks and jerks like crazy while very slowly accelerating 1st up to 3k, then into 2nd and cruising at about 30km/h (that was the round the block test I did).

[Bunta]

It could be CAS it could also be AFM or a big airleak, I would also test the coil packs with a multi meter as I beleive you can destroy them by getting them wet, also take a look at the ignitor, I imagine if this got wet it could easity be the cause of these issues.

[copycutter]

I will try and look into how to test those things you mentioned, as I'm incredibly mechanically minded to be honest, and beyond checking the coils and plugs I'm kind of out of my depth.

Where is the igniter on a series 2? I know it's the box at the back of the coil cover on a series 1.

[R.3.2.G.T.R]

try a known working afm from a mate / sau user to eliminate that, it sounds like an AFM issue

when my CAS screwed up, I had trouble starting the car as the signal was all scrambled which in your case doesnt appear to be an issue, having said that, it may still be the culprit

[copycutter]

Update: I think it is a spark related issue, & I think the car is running on 4 which is why it seems so bad when I have done my test drive around the block. If it was running on 5 it would still be sorta driveable but on 4 cyls its very rough and jerky.

This morning I tried doing some more diagnosing with a friend.

We first started it up to test coils again. After thinking a bit more, I don't think it's the CAS because like you say BWGTR it starts first time every time.

Once it was running we tried revving between 2500-3000 while removing the coilpack plugs one by one to and tell if there was a noticeable difference unplugging one & putting it back to nail it down to one cylinder. Previously I had done this while idling and I couldn't notice any real difference between any as the idle was rough anyway, and my friend explained that to be noticeable you need to raise the revs.

What we noticed was that there was no change when unplugging and plugging in 1st and 2nd cylinder coil packs, but noticeable stumble when removing the rest (cyls 3-6) and improvement when plugging them back in. I then swapped coil 1 with 5 and tested again. Now the apparently bad coil #1 was working in coil #5's spot, appeared to be firing (stumble when unplugged etc) which seemed to indicate it isn't the coils, but rather cyl #1 and #2 specific.

We thought maybe the #1 and #2 injectors weren't working properly since the front two might have been doused with water when I dropped the cooling system bleed screw a week ago, but out the back there's a ton of fuel soot, and when removing spark plugs 1, 2, 5 and 6 to compare it seemed that 5 and 6 plugs were real sooty with carbon but 1 and 2 seemed like they had been "washed" with fuel and looked cleaner, which we think means the injectors are firing fuel in there but not being burned (hence the crap out the back on the driveway).

My friend then had to go, but suggested I use a test light with paperclip in the coil plug on the coil wiring for the front two and back two to see if they all have power & signal going through them equally. If they don't then I guess it's wiring loom for front two coils, if not then I dunno because we swapped coil #1 and #5, and #1 started working when in #5's spot.

Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks to everyone for the replies and help so far. This problem sucks.

Edited April 4, 2012 by copycutter

[copycutter]

Put a test light into each coil pack plug with engine running and each plugs left pin (looking at the plug) lit up the test light the middle and right pins did nothing but I don't know if the test light could blink fast enough to show the coil signal. This tells me each coil pack has power equally though.

[Simon-S14]

You need a LED test light to test for pulses on injectors and coil s

[copycutter]

Do you know where I could get one?

Does it come with fittings for the coil & injector plugs?

[Simon-S14]

dont need fittings.. just probe it while cranking.

should find them at any good auto store, or electronics place like jaycar

[copycutter]

Spoke to a mechanic and he lent me a noid light for the injector plugs. Tested that on the suspect front two injector plugs, they are getting signal fine.

He also recommended I get new plugs and sit the coil up on top of the engine with a new plug in it, to see if it sparks while cranking it over.

I did this with all 6 and all of them were arcing their spark onto the rocker cover which the coil was resting on top of on it's side.

I would think that the spark is getting all the way there means the coils wiring is fine (all getting spark happening), but possibly the spark is arcing out the side of the coil packs?

I've inspected them and couldn't see any cracks, but would it be common for two coils to give up at the same time?

[DVS JEZ]

Take the injectors out and get them cleaned and flow tested.

Another option while its running is to get a screw driver and a hammer

And give the problem injectors a few taps/hits near the body of the injector. Sometimes they get stuck.

Just to confirm after its been running and u pull the spark plugs cyl 1 and 2 are dry?