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Precision Pt6766 Vs Forcedperformance Gt3794R Hta Dyno Shootout

Lithium

By Lithium,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

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Agreed - amazing stuff on both. Still only E70 too :O

On E85+ the results would be mental too.

Wasn't there somewhere that tested the difference between E85 and E70 in terms of timing and found there wasn't much in it?

Where something that was E30/E40 vs E70/E85 the difference was far from linear where the lower content was closer to PULP. So effectively once above a certain percentage the results are diminishing

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Lithium
Lithium

Agreed, just pointing out it is still a large turbo - but it is SERIOUS business... especially when no one has pushed a 99HTZ to it's limits, yet.

Lithium
Lithium

A Supra owner in the US has upgraded from their old Borg Warner S467 T4 turbo to a T3 flanged FP Super99HTZ and picked up 15% more power with a huge increase in spool - they run a Powerglide and usual

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Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

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This is very true - not sure how much it would matter in this case, most of the time we aren't running concentrations of air/fuel mix which higher ethanol mixes would show its mettle as much as it might in this case and I've never tuned something at boost levels nearly this high so just speculating really.

I'd say results on a car running 8.6:1 and 20psi will have quite different results to one running 10.5:1 and 55psi comparing between BP98, E30, E70 and E85.... knowing that the gains from alcohol between an NA engine and one running boost are hugely different. ie, the difference in gains between going from 98 to E10 and E85 are negligible, while clearly not so much when running a decent helping of boost. To get good NA gains on E85 versus the other fuels you have to run 14-15:1 compression.

R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

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Yeah that's also a fair call, at what point does that come into the equation etc.

Would also be interesting to see if they did it on some higher octane race gas too, just from a information point of view. But then thats timing changes etc :D

Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

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He used to run it on E98 for drags, then changed to an E85 blend using E98 + C16 as a base fuel to mix as he reached the limit of his fuel system. I am not sure if that is still the case, I think he upgraded the fuel system somewhere along the line so whether that was due to more air or to go back to E98 I am not sure. Also don't know if it was normal E70 or 70% eth+C16 for this.

sky30 Mentor

sky30

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For what it's worth when I have done road tuning on cars I've usually been able to get a reasonable guess of what it is going to make on the dyno once timing is sorted just from injector duty cycle etc. It has tended to be fairly relative unless there is some issue, and there is no magic number I have to subtract after calculating it out despite the fuel usage being closest related to engine power while the dyno is obvious wheel hp - so I tend to feel if it isn't exactly percentage loss, that is still the best way of estimating. It is never going to be exact, naturally.

M Id be interested to know what formula you use to get aprox power based on injecor duty and size if u will share?

Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

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Hmm - I don't really want to share too much of how I specifically do it as I essentially have my own tuning methods, assumptions, use a dyno that reads a specific way etc and basically you could I'm either (a) too selfish too share or (b) over offering up too much for criticism and having to justify myself. Sorry :)

Here is a site which gives a lot of what you need to work out something similar: http://www.stealth31.../2-calc-idc.htm

Bare in mind I never said this kind of method is a definite way of doing it, I only tend to do it when road tuning initially as I don't have a dyno so try and sort out as much as possible so that by the time a car hits a dyno it should HOPEFULLY be as ready to get into the good stuff as possible - I just sometimes use fuel usage (to hit particular AFRs) to determine if everything is working as well as I expect it should be. If fuel usage is substantially up or down over what I'd hope then there is a chance something somewhere isn't doing it's job right - and I loathe getting a car onto a dyno only to find out something is up.

sky30 Mentor

sky30

Posted
Posted

Hmm - I don't really want to share too much of how I specifically do it as I essentially have my own tuning methods, assumptions, use a dyno that reads a specific way etc and basically you could I'm either (a) too selfish too share or (b) over offering up too much for criticism and having to justify myself. Sorry :)

Here is a site which gives a lot of what you need to work out something similar: http://www.stealth31.../2-calc-idc.htm

Bare in mind I never said this kind of method is a definite way of doing it, I only tend to do it when road tuning initially as I don't have a dyno so try and sort out as much as possible so that by the time a car hits a dyno it should HOPEFULLY be as ready to get into the good stuff as possible - I just sometimes use fuel usage (to hit particular AFRs) to determine if everything is working as well as I expect it should be. If fuel usage is substantially up or down over what I'd hope then there is a chance something somewhere isn't doing it's job right - and I loathe getting a car onto a dyno only to find out something is up.

Hmm - I don't really want to share too much of how I specifically do it as I essentially have my own tuning methods, assumptions, use a dyno that reads a specific way etc and basically you could I'm either (a) too selfish too share or (b) over offering up too much for criticism and having to justify myself. Sorry :)

Here is a site which gives a lot of what you need to work out something similar: http://www.stealth31.../2-calc-idc.htm

Bare in mind I never said this kind of method is a definite way of doing it, I only tend to do it when road tuning initially as I don't have a dyno so try and sort out as much as possible so that by the time a car hits a dyno it should HOPEFULLY be as ready to get into the good stuff as possible - I just sometimes use fuel usage (to hit particular AFRs) to determine if everything is working as well as I expect it should be. If fuel usage is substantially up or down over what I'd hope then there is a chance something somewhere isn't doing it's job right - and I loathe getting a car onto a dyno only to find out something is up.

Im currently road tuning my new turbo upgrade, ive changed the garret gt35r to a FP 3586HTA. The FP HTA is a great turbo.

Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

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Very nice :-) What spec engine do you have? Any what difference have you noticed in spool, fuel usage, or in general so far since going to the HTA?

sky30 Mentor

sky30

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Posted

Very nice :-) What spec engine do you have? Any what difference have you noticed in spool, fuel usage, or in general so far since going to the HTA?

Engine is rb30/26

What realy suprised my is the spool is slightly better. The hta definately flows more air, the gt35 wouldnt make any more than 20psi at high revs, so far i have the hta holding 24 psi to redline.

Still not finished tune yet, so will see how i get on.

Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

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Nice - will be good to see your results :) One of my mates maxed his GT3586HTA on his RB30/26 (with cams and headwork) at around 25psi if I remember rightly. His fuel system wasn't up to running full E85 so he went with E30 and made 565kw @ wheels with it, hit 500kw by 5000rpm and stayed above that power until the 8000rpm limiter.

sky30 Mentor

sky30

Posted
Posted

Nice - will be good to see your results :) One of my mates maxed his GT3586HTA on his RB30/26 (with cams and headwork) at around 25psi if I remember rightly. His fuel system wasn't up to running full E85 so he went with E30 and made 565kw @ wheels with it, hit 500kw by 5000rpm and stayed above that power until the 8000rpm limiter.

What rear housing does he use?

Im only running .82 rear., but full boost is around 3200 in 4th gear, awsome response, and the 4wd system handles it well with only some wheelspin in 2nd gear.

Im running 98unleaded, but will be hooking up my wmi kit before i try more boost.

Mick_o Grand Master

Mick_o

Posted
Posted

Lol yes I thought id drop that :) lol I haven't confessed to anybody on here yet....... But here it goes I own an Evo 9 now with a FP red coming on E85... Aiming for 350kw - 375kw. My secret is out now lol

Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

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DAMN you!! Jealous as. I almost traded my R33 on a black EVO 9 GT about 4 years back, and kinda wish I did. I'd hoped they'd depreciate a bit but that didn't happen. The R33 did though :(

Mick_o Grand Master

Mick_o

Posted
Posted

Haha thanks Dan its a blast to drive SO much grip. Picked up a dead stock unit but she's got a full exhaust from headers to the tip and a k&n panel filter. Once I sell the 33 the Evos Gunna get the treatment :)

wolverine Grand Master

wolverine

Posted
Posted

Lol yes I thought id drop that :) lol I haven't confessed to anybody on here yet....... But here it goes I own an Evo 9 now with a FP red coming on E85... Aiming for 350kw - 375kw. My secret is out now lol

Traitor... :woot:

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