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Top Feed Injectors Into Side Feed R33 Engines ?

discopotato03

By discopotato03,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
Posted

Searched , a lot , and not much conclusinve information online .

This about ID 1000s the real ones and can they be fitted to an R33 RB25 factory inlet manifold and stay under the std top plenum section .

Please no alternative solutions because I want to know the facts and others searching may get the answers they are looking for .

That aside . R33 era RB25 inlet manifolds are a pain because they were set up to use the bulky unique side feed injectors and matching fuel rail , and that particular fad didn't last that many years - or even into the R34 era . Luckily Nissan didn't do this to R33 GTRs .

Now as we know the bottom of side feed injectors is larger than your typical top feed injector so to use the latter you need to fit an adapter "washer" or flat disc to fit and seal on the lower inlet manifold sections larger seat .

The side feed fuel rail isn't going to work for very obvious reasons . Personally I like to use standard components where possible and I don't care whos or what the part is off provided it fits and works properly .

Nissan used steel top feed fuel rails on RB20s/RB26s/RB25 Neo and I'm curious to know if these can be adapted with spacers or whatever to clamp down on the RB25s manifold . If so that gets you a rail that "looks" factory as would the FPR on the front of it , and would be reasonably cheap .

Assuming this is possible the next hurdles are the hole sizes in the rail and the length of the injectors themselves so it all fits under the RB25s top manifold section .

I think I did read that there is a suitably sized ID1000 injector that drops into R34 GTRs and possibly R34GTTs and that may be workable in an earlier era RB25 .

I did ask someone yesterday if its possible to fit a complete R34GTt inlet manifold to an R33 RB25 and get around the side feed issue that way , seems something is different port wise between R33 and R34 RB25DET engines ?

And last , I don't want to hear about alternative side feed options or top feeds for that matter just whats involved to fit ID 1000s to an R33 RB25DET .

A .

ARTZ Grand Master

ARTZ

Posted
Posted

tutorials section Disco...I made thread on it :thumbsup:

http://www.skylinesa...it-can-be-done/

we toyed with the idea of using a Neo rail so it would look standard, but didn't follow through with it as aftermarket rails are so cheap anyway...

I'm pretty sure it wont fit with out some modification anyway, but by chopping off the return hard line and re-routing it, it may just fit

GTScotT Grand Master

GTScotT

Posted
Posted

LOL beat me to it ARTZ, your post came in before I could reply!

I was writting the below post:

I believe ARTZ managed to fit EV14s into his R33 with a certain rail etc.

Perhaps PM him or maybe he will chime in.

ID1000's = EV14s that have been built/flow matched by ID. IIRC ARTZ is running XSPURT injectors which are also EV14s but built by XSPURT instead of ID.

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

EV14's are made by Bosch. All ID do are apparently flow match them. (at what pressure I have no idea, flow would probably change at higher pressure.)

Bosch guarantee less than 2% variation from the factory.

Xspurt, the Australian wholesaler, have sold many 1000's of ev14's and never had one returned. I have personally fitted about 6 sets without issue, and as a high volume customer of theirs I can get some great pricing... ;)

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

Lol.

I have seen what they do to the pintle, they just chamfer the tip so they fit multiple uses I think. A quick 45 degree cut to the metal on the end using a carbide bit in the lathe, much newer than that lathe and more practical. At least theirs has a drive belt... :)

discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Good write up but I was hoping someone managed to do something with a steel RB injector rail . I really don't like the pretty stuff and Nissans std regulator and return system works fine IMO .

Is there a short ID1000 or Xspert injector that fits Nissan top feed rails or if adapters are needed shorter ones ?

Also what about GTt inlet manifolds , big dramas to fit in an R33 ?

A .

AngryRB Grand Master

AngryRB

Posted
Posted

Good write up but I was hoping someone managed to do something with a steel RB injector rail . I really don't like the pretty stuff and Nissans std regulator and return system works fine IMO .

Is there a short ID1000 or Xspert injector that fits Nissan top feed rails or if adapters are needed shorter ones ?

Also what about GTt inlet manifolds , big dramas to fit in an R33 ?

A .

there werent any short ones around when i did it, getting the rail and injectors in isnt too bad its, getting the top manifold on and the bolts are almost impossible to get to cause the rails in the way, almost brought me to tears :wacko:

discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
  • Author
Posted

After more searching it seems the drama is that to run these injectors in their shortest form ie no top hat adapter the rail has to have 14mm bore holes and a lot of Japanese rails have 11mm holes . Sorry if I'm the only one who didn't know . Also people are talking about clips/locks and I know SFA about these other than I've seen pics of pretty coloured hats with clips on them ?

Also "Xspurts" which look very similar to ID EV14s , spose I'm opening a can of worms but for the real tuners here are they better as in snappier/faster more accurate things than any side feed injector inc the aftermarket Nismos . And similar to IDs ones ?

A .

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

Read the post I made, ID's ARE Bosch ev14's. Either will open much quicker than an old sidefeed design.

The Neo runs a 14mm injector rail. You will probably have to frig around with it to install, or just hit up Injectors online (xspurt) for a matching rail, they are cheap, and spray it matt black.

ARTZ Grand Master

ARTZ

Posted
Posted

Good write up but I was hoping someone managed to do something with a steel RB injector rail . I really don't like the pretty stuff and Nissans std regulator and return system works fine IMO .

Is there a short ID1000 or Xspert injector that fits Nissan top feed rails or if adapters are needed shorter ones ?

Also what about GTt inlet manifolds , big dramas to fit in an R33 ?

A .

awwww disco thinks my rail is pretty :blush:

Like I said Disco you may be able to do it with a stock NEO rail but you will have to modify the feed line cause it wont fit under the plenum...if you hack it off and run a fuel hose around and feed it from the behind it could fit just fit fine...it could...i just decided it was easier to get an aftermarket rail than buy a NEO rail on a "it might fit" basis....

Plus I jizzed in my pants when I saw chrome...I'm only human

LOL should have read ARTZ thread, Mark :P

He only took off the TB.

he did and there was numerous PMs...some people never listen.. :/

but thats ok cause thats how new things are discovered...

discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Well if I have it right short Xspurts are 40mm long and ID 1000s 48mm long . How short must R34 GTt injectors be to make the rail clear the upper manifold section ?

On EV14s , yep ages ago I posted pics or links to the size of the moving parts in EV14s vs earlier Bosch injectors . I just wanted to know from the tuners how much better Xsperts are than Nismos are to tune with .

Cheers A .

ARTZ Grand Master

ARTZ

Posted
Posted

base ev14s are available in a few different sizes....ID only uses the 48mm injectors... xspurts 1000cc are 48mm long too..

however Xspurt also offer a 750cc and a 2000cc in 40mm.based on a shorter ev14 injector..which is why I went for them...

ID dont have these, they only do the 48mm as far as I know...

the injectors are identical, the IDs (and some xspurts as well but mine didnt ) do come with latency charts and are offered in "matched sets",

I know some tuners prefer these while others dont seem to care....

I believe all tuners will tell you they are great to tune with too

discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yep I think you've shown the way at post 18 of this thread http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/372566-top-feed-fuel-rail-to-suit-standard-plenum/

I also added a link to an NZ site thats advertising a 900cc version of the short Xspurt injector .

The important part seems to be that the shorty (40mm ?) Xspurts in a 14mm drilled rail will work though there is mention of some pipe below the plenum that has to be moved - or is that only if you use a GTt rail with the supply tube ?

You spoke about another tapped hole in your rail and I gather that was the return hole for those using a twin feed system and a remote FPR .

I was actually wondering if anyone made a screw in adapter so a standard style reg could fit on the front of those aftermarket rails .

Thanks for your input Clint , cheers Adrian .

Great flick that one .

ARTZ Grand Master

ARTZ

Posted
Posted

I didnt have to move the pipe below the plenum...Mark did but he got 48mm injectors in there, we couldnt find a stock FPR adapter either..

The fuel rail i got was a twin feed rail...I cant recommend it..we had issues with sealing the bung and ended up welding it shut..

In hindsight I would of been better to locate my fuel reg remotely,..I will do this next time i have to pull it apart....

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