Gt 35X Vs Gt35R

[gotRICE?]

The GTX are definitely quieter, that was part of the intention behind the design -

Blasphemy!!!!

[scotty nm35]

Eh?

Noise is inefficiency, as it takes energy to make the noise. Mine is almost silent.

[34GeeTeeTee]

Blasphemy!!!!

Eh?

Noise is inefficiency, as it takes energy to make the noise. Mine is almost silent.

This one is for Lithium -

The GTX is a carry over from OEM applications where noise control is very very important. While it is a newer aero package, it does make sacrifices to be a quiet as it is. Typically all full blade designs are used for targeting a narrow band of operating conditions on a compressor map, and we initially investigated doing this as well in 2005 when we began our design proccess for the HTA wheel aero package. Ultimately we abandonded it due to the limitations that the full blade style puts on the width of the operating map. The HTA (actually HTA15) surpasses the performance of the full blade variants on both the surge and choke flow ends of the compressor map, oddly enough these are the exact 2 regions of the map that most people operate in without even knowing it and this is why the HTA outperforms the GTX when compared head to head with matching inducer diameters. In my trip the the MHI turbocharger research laboratories in Nagasaki in the summer of 2011 I was introduced first hand to the extreme effort these OEM put into noise control for aero on compressor wheels, it is their number 1 concern - this shocked me. They do not focus on 5:1 pressure ratios, they dont focus on surge line compressor efficiency, they dont focus on flat RPM lines and wide maps - they want the turbo to be quiet - end of story. Mercedes doesnt want to buy loud turbochargers.

The GTX is not a blank page design for high power small engines, it is something Garrett already created for an Motor Company and it was billet, so it fit the marcket needs. For example it does not take the blade thickness down to the minimum, it places a higher priority on million mile powertrain warranty performance. Ever had a race car that ran for a million miles on the same turbocharger?

The HTA was designed as a blank page effort targeting ONLY high pressure ratio efficiency (5:1), surge line efficiency, and flat RPM lines thru as much of the map as possible. To this day we do a steady stream of GTX conversions to HTA, if you know anyone that needs any pull-off GTX wheels, give me a ring.

[34GeeTeeTee]

^^^ Sorry that info was from Robert Young (FP)

Can also be found here -

http://www.gtrlife.c...both-has-63-ar/

[Lithium]

It sucks that FP don't get taken more seriously by more people when there isn't really any reason not to. They have been doing the HTA turbos for ages, with proven results all around. I love the fact that (and this has come up a few times) the FP3582HTA and the GTX3076R apparently quite similar in response, it makes quite a few turbos redundant.

Compare (hypothetical) performance of a few turbos in that size range

Power potential

1) GTX3582R

2) FP3582HTA

3) GT3582R

4) GTX3576R

5) GTX3076R

Spool:

1) GTX3076R

2) FP3582HTA

2) GTX3576R

4) GT3582R

5) GTX3582R

Being second best on both lists kindof puts it on a different level in terms of balance of power vs response really.

[scotty nm35]

There is an increase in price by my calculations though, and the thread was comparing the Garretts only I thought.

I will definitely be looking at the FP3582HTA for the Evo 7 stroker build I have coming up, hopefully it lives up to your expectations of it Lith. Is there a split external housing available?

I like many others are sceptical due to the inflated dyno figures coming out of the US, with local results I would be more confident I guess.

[discoPumpkin]

copy n pasted this

"Did an SR20 last week with a GTX2863 (with 0.64 AR rear). S14 SR20DET in Datsun 1600 on Dyno Dynamics dyno running 98 RON fuel. Impressive little turbo that delivered exactly what I was expecting – significantly more power than the T28 with only a slight lag penalty. The impressive part is how much more power! We saw 230rwkw (= about 380 hp at crank) on 17psi from an S14 SR20 with stock cams.

Comparison based on other SR's I've tuned with std cams on same dyno (I use 15psi as my standard full boost figure):

std T28 = 200rwkw on 15psi, making 15psi at 3300 to 3500
GTX2863R = 230rwkw on 17psi, making 15psi at 3750
GT2871R (52t) = 215rwkw on 17psi, making 15psi at 4000 to 4300

What remains to be seen is how it performs once cams are fitted and what happens at higher boost levels. Cams traditionally give 20rwkw gain on ANY SR20. So that’d make 250rwkw on 17psi from this little beasty! That’s really worth talking about! "

Basically a disco spud on steroids, couldnt believe the smaller 71 made more then the gt2871. Another guy from Adelaide on NS put the same gtx2863 on his s15 with step 1's, made exactly 250rwkw on 17psi, he reckons he wil get 260rwkws.. but the gtx2867 would be even deadlier

Edited May 8, 2013 by discoPumpkin

[discoPumpkin]

EDIT: "248 rwkw @ 20 PSI dropping to 16 PSI and 520 nm torque!! on 100 RON E10" (s15/GTX2863)

[Lithium]

There is an increase in price by my calculations though, and the thread was comparing the Garretts only I thought.

I will definitely be looking at the FP3582HTA for the Evo 7 stroker build I have coming up, hopefully it lives up to your expectations of it Lith. Is there a split external housing available?

I like many others are sceptical due to the inflated dyno figures coming out of the US, with local results I would be more confident I guess.

Other people were discussing it so I figured I'd add my 2c. And while people turn their brains off about dynos overseas, at the end of the day the results measured on the same dyno will be relative. Turn the numbers off and pay attention to the relative curves if you are have beliefs of what numbers are realistic based off your own ideologies.

[NYTSKY]

I have a dyno graph with a back to back of a GT30R and GT35R I did on my RB25. Ill post it up over the weekend.

Basically showing what an awesome turbo the GT30R is, only giving away 23rwkw at the top end but could potentially be less if boost held (GT30R was maxxed).

GT30 hitting full boost 600rpm earlier.

[Lithium]

std T28 = 200rwkw on 15psi, making 15psi at 3300 to 3500

GTX2863R = 230rwkw on 17psi, making 15psi at 3750

GT2871R (52t) = 215rwkw on 17psi, making 15psi at 4000 to 4300

Basically a disco spud on steroids, couldnt believe the smaller 71 made more then the gt2871. Another guy from Adelaide on NS put the same gtx2863 on his s15 with step 1's, made exactly 250rwkw on 17psi, he reckons he wil get 260rwkws.. but the gtx2867 would be even deadlier

I did some tuning on a 4cylinder which previously ran a 52trim GT2871R which has since upgraded to a GTX2867R - it previously was tuned to 16psi on BP98 (which was at the limit of it's fuel system) and hitting 12psi by 3600rpm. We took it out for initial testing and road tuning and It now hits 12psi by 3200rpm, and the fuel system was at it's limit on 13psi at peak power rpm with the same AFR targets so safe to say it flows quite a lot better. Not sure if the T28 hotside will start becoming a limiting factor if/when the boost gets wound up, it is still on a .64 hotside.

[shnaped_second]

On the subject of gt35's anyone used or seen how these perform?

http://atpturbo.com.au/atp_turbo_products/atp-machined-from-solid-mfs-turbo-comp-wheels/atp-gt35r-gold-mfs

[34GeeTeeTee]

On the subject of gt35's anyone used or seen how these perform?

http://atpturbo.com.au/atp_turbo_products/atp-machined-from-solid-mfs-turbo-comp-wheels/atp-gt35r-gold-mfs

I did see a reputable Turbo manufacturer taking the piss out of them? Not a good indication! lol

[shnaped_second]

I did see a reputable Turbo manufacturer taking the piss out of them? Not a good indication! lol

lol they say on there site that they replaced a fp green turbo on a evo 9 with their atp turbo and made 30kw more on the same boost.

Ive still got my heart set on the hta3586

[Lithium]

LOL maybe it did, would be interesting to see a dyno overlay - a T04R would make more power too. Shame the website is full of broken links.

[GTScotT]

It sucks that FP don't get taken more seriously by more people when there isn't really any reason not to. They have been doing the HTA turbos for ages, with proven results all around. I love the fact that (and this has come up a few times) the FP3582HTA and the GTX3076R apparently quite similar in response, it makes quite a few turbos redundant.

Compare (hypothetical) performance of a few turbos in that size range

Power potential

1) GTX3582R

2) FP3582HTA

3) GT3582R

4) GTX3576R

5) GTX3076R

Spool:

1) GTX3076R

2) FP3582HTA

2) GTX3576R

4) GT3582R

5) GTX3582R

Being second best on both lists kindof puts it on a different level in terms of balance of power vs response really.

Where do we think a 6262 would fall in here?

Am trying to plan a few things, your opinion would be valued and I think that would be a good addition to this topic anyhow.

[Lithium]

Thats a hard one with the amount of comparable data out there (or not) however from a personal opinion standpoint I feel more comfortable about the idea of a GTX3582R. I reckon if someone tried both back to back on the exact same car the spool/power difference (or balance of) will be very close however with the Garrett you are getting an ACTUAL OEM quality unit you know you can count on, while the Precision turbos are not shite they just don't have quite the reputation of the Garrett.

So yeah, I consider the PT6262 and GTX3582R more or less interchangeable (or side by side) in those lists - money no object I'd take the GTX, PT6262 is the slightly more budget option.

[GTScotT]

Fair enough.

Bro's sigma may be getting a 6262 as it still falls reasonably within his budget (chancing a JB). The set up is too rugged for a finicky DBB item (particularly a garrett, hes killed a few).

At the same time I am starting to consider the higher end of the power scale for myself, but I can see your faith lies more in the 82HTA which I was expecting. I am just fearful of the price, at over $1,000 more landed its a big investment. There is a lot of love for the 6262 on an angry SR, but they are easily cracking 500kw; somewhat more than I am aiming for yet the lag difference between that and the smaller variants are more than acceptable.

Anyhow, back on topic. Get me on FB if you want to deliberate a little further.

[Lithium]

Going from a ball bearing Garrett to a journal Precision for durability is a curious way of going... unless you are thinking in terms of the relative price of replacements?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

[GTScotT]

Repair and replacement is one of the issues, for sure.

The motor is just not great for the application and EGT is quite high when pushed, melting the plastic bearing cages with ease. Despite mega particle filters being run in line were also having issues with oil contamination. None of this covered by warranty or necessarily rebuildable. We are tired of buying cores.

Just going to opt for something a little more robust (in theory) and cheap to repair/replace. JB fits turbos fit the bill, PT is one of the decent options (to make some power).