Electric Fan Setup

[blind_elk]

... First cooling factor is that you're able to set when you would like to start cooling. This is key cause cooler your motor is, more horsepower achieved.

Coolant temperature is controlled by the thermostat, NOT by any fans. In cars where I had efficient cooling and electric fans, the fans never turned on as long as the car had reasonable road speed. My R32 is a different matter: I cannot get enough airflow through the radiator to maintain thermostatted temperature, particularly under even moderate load.

If more horsepower is made in cooler engines, why do the engines get thermostatted to around 80? Why don't the engineers design the cooling system to run at, say, 40C?

But, as long as you can make the air go through the radiator, then electric fans will be fine in a track car.

89CAL - can I suggest the the water pump actually runs slightly faster than the engine, due to the difference in pulley sizes of the crank / pump pulleys.

[89CAL]

Yes apologies. I'll re-write that. The water pump speed is relative to the engine speed. Wether they are under-driven or overdriven, they will run at engine RPM x drive difference (from memory)

I did mean to put that in but fogot

[FBRacing]

Coolant temperature is controlled by the thermostat, NOT by any fans. In cars where I had efficient cooling and electric fans, the fans never turned on as long as the car had reasonable road speed. My R32 is a different matter: I cannot get enough airflow through the radiator to maintain thermostatted temperature, particularly under even moderate load.

If more horsepower is made in cooler engines, why do the engines get thermostatted to around 80? Why don't the engineers design the cooling system to run at, say, 40C?

But, as long as you can make the air go through the radiator, then electric fans will be fine in a track car.

89CAL - can I suggest the the water pump actually runs slightly faster than the engine, due to the difference in pulley sizes of the crank / pump pulleys.

The main reason manufactures keep a cars temp to 190 degrees is primarily to achieve a happy medium. Cold motor creates high carbon exhaust. Also for creature comforts like climate control. It's not practical for a car to run around 140 when it's 30 degrees outside. But I must remind you, I live in Arizona, USA. The yearly average temp here is 115. We have a record temp of 128 here. I don't use thermostats. To restrictive. It's hard to keep a motor below 195 when you're revving the piss out of it to stay sideways and the air isn't being naturally forced thru. Another thought that we're leaning to is methanol fuel. Burns cooler.

[FBRacing]

How the hell can the fan clutch kicking in have any affect on the water pump? If the water pump slows, the engine slows. It is absoloutly no different wether you run a fan on the pulley or not, the only difference is you wont get the slight drop in revs when the fan kicks in which is pretty marginal to say the least. The water pump is always spinning at engine speed (unless you have a slipping belt etc) so there is no real gain in water pump efficency by removing the viscous fan. The pump is driven by the engine, you cant say it has a harder time because theres a fan attatched to it. It will spin AT engine speed, all the time, with an electric fan, a viscous fan, or 20 fans

My ONLY argument has been that on a street car, the cost to do all these things does not give enough of a performance gain to justify it. How much for an electric fan setup deep cycle battery, new altenator and any extra wiring to suit? Compare this to $0 to leave it how a whole bunch of engineers designed it all those years ago. On a race-car fair enough. I was unsure what your car was for thats why I made sure to say 'on a street car' in my second post when I was elaborating on the first.

It doesnt make 'no sense at all' that Nissan used a viscous fan hub. When they work how they were designed they do the job very well. I have had my R33 GTS-t for about 5 years now. Never ever had a cooling problem, replaced the water pump at the 100,000km service but it was still in good condition, no leaks, no issues. Have run viscous fan from day 1, and I would say the only worthwhile cooling mod I have done is putting a cooling panel in.

If its a race car, put electric fans in. No problem. But I was talking, and always have been talking about cars driven primarily on the street

It actually does but you already stated the main reason. Low idle=low fan speed=low coolant flow. This is a drift car built for street. It will be a street legal drift car with all creature comforts. All the reliability of a "off the shelf" car but with handling, power, and functionality of a professional drift car. It's practically already sold once done. Your R33 that you might of bought 5 years ago only cost you $4k but over here, we can sell that exact same car with NO mods for $20-25k overnight. Now imagine a car that I'm building. $$$! It's what I do. I build full race cars with the creature comforts we love. I'm not ripping on you and by no means want to come off as a jack ass. But the main focus of this topic was to ask for help to locate a port on the ECU/ECM to engage a fan. And before I started hacking into the ECU and reprogramming the maps and timing, I wanted to insure that I could expand off of it in "stock trim" because to me, that's cleanliness. I don't fancy gauges everywhere, and not to fond of how the FC's remote just velcros to the dash. That's tacky. I'd rather find a r34 display, hack that, and display what is important to driver/operator. Clean and looks stock but it has been altered to meet what is needed. If I was able to find a port, use the stock ECU, keep the dash clean, the engine bay clear of cluttered wires, than I accomplished my goal.

[FBRacing]

After everyone's helpful input on stating that there isn't a port on the oem ECU/ECM to expand off of, I've came to the conclusion that an aftermarket stand alone EFI system would and will be efficient and the solution required for my goal. Unless someone has found something different, I do appreciate your input and conversations.

[blind_elk]

If you still have the original radiator with the A/C overtemp switch, you can hook into the relay to trigger the fans. In the R32, it seems to be set about 3C above thermostat.

[FBRacing]

If you still have the original radiator with the A/C overtemp switch, you can hook into the relay to trigger the fans. In the R32, it seems to be set about 3C above thermostat.

Now that's thinking outside the box! I like that idea. I'm going to play with that idea. Maybe an interface of some sort to piggy back on it. I wish to retain the A/C. Thanks!

[89CAL]

Your R33 that you might of bought 5 years ago only cost you $4k but over here, we can sell that exact same car with NO mods for $20-25k overnight

You don't want to come off as a Jack-ass? Insulting my car like this isn't a good start...... I payed alot more then that for a straight, stock standard (mechanically) R33 GTS-t and have spent alot more on the car since then.

I said in my first post that you would need an aftermarket ECU. I dont think using the A/C fan switching will work on an R33, especially if you want to keep the engine as cool as possible.

By the way, engines run at specified temperature because thats where they are designed to run. Heater doesnt need 76+ degree (celsius) temps to have hot air coming out of the vents. Engines are designed to run at specified temperatures for optimal wear, combustion and efficency.

I'm finished here anyway. You already have your answer

[Ben C34]

After everyone's helpful input on stating that there isn't a port on the oem ECU/ECM to expand off of, I've came to the conclusion that an aftermarket stand alone EFI system would and will be efficient and the solution required for my goal. Unless someone has found something different, I do appreciate your input and conversations.

That is the funniest reason I have seen to go to aftermarket management.

[FBRacing]

That is the funniest reason I have seen to go to aftermarket management.

Well it was either reprogram the stock ecu on at a fellows shop dyno or buy a stand alone EFI for the built engine which hasn't yet been started since it was placed into the car. I was just hoping to reprogram. It's easier without ripping out all of the engine harness and installing an aftermarket unit. Time is what i don't have.

[FBRacing]

You don't want to come off as a Jack-ass? Insulting my car like this isn't a good start...... I payed alot more then that for a straight, stock standard (mechanically) R33 GTS-t and have spent alot more on the car since then.

I said in my first post that you would need an aftermarket ECU. I dont think using the A/C fan switching will work on an R33, especially if you want to keep the engine as cool as possible.

By the way, engines run at specified temperature because thats where they are designed to run. Heater doesnt need 76+ degree (celsius) temps to have hot air coming out of the vents. Engines are designed to run at specified temperatures for optimal wear, combustion and efficency.

I'm finished here anyway. You already have your answer

I did not mean to insult you or your cars worth. I do apologize. And yes you are correct about an engines spec'd temp for optimal wear and efficiency.

[D.I.Y. Mik]

Hey guys... i dont know why you want to use the existing wiring.

Doing a twin fan setup is sooo easy, even a bonehead like me can do it. And its real cheap.

You can even have them go on at different temps.

Its so easy, once you have the bits, you can do it with a knife a screwdriver and a soldering iron.

And you only ever use the screw in temp switches, obviously you all know the capillary ones are rubbish.

I have a temp gauge sender and a fan thermo switch in one of those metal bits that splices into the radiator hose, and it works great.

You can even get a hose with a threaded fitting built in, for that nice neat look.

[D.I.Y. Mik]

Hey Cole, check out my dads steering and suspension work sometime:

No kidding, they got a landspeed record too.

Edited September 2, 2013 by D.I.Y. Mik

[FBRacing]

Hey Cole, check out my dads steering and suspension work sometime:

SpiritOfAmerica_CraigBreedlove.jpg

No kidding, they got a landspeed record too.

You're father is Craig Breedlove?

[D.I.Y. Mik]

No, an engineer on the project, he designed and built the steering and suspension.

In the films of the run, you can see him for a second or two, hes the tall guy with glasses.

[Dan_J]

serious wtf is this thread....

buy this and win at life

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOP-GAUGE-Universal-Itouch-Fan-Super-Controller-Water-Oil-Temp-Voltage-Gauge-/320931283558?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ab8fec266

[D.I.Y. Mik]

Exactly, there you go, cheap too.

Wish i found that before, wtf its cheap enough... ill have to try.

have you tried it?

[Dan_J]

am using it as a intake temp display as it goes down to 0 deg c, but yes it works good, with adjustable temp trigger also

theres also another one that the seller has, it will display and runs two triggers, say water and oil etc.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Dan_J

[jjman]

that would be way better than a radiator hose sensor probe with that annoying activation dial on it.

[FBRacing]

Those units do look simple but not my style. So I have it figured out. I can use ports 59 and 109 on the ecu to run a radiator fan and also an oil cooler fan. Run that wire inside the engine harness and branch it off from where the A/C condenser wiring goes to. Once you open the hood, it'll look like the car was built with electric fans from the factory. No extra gauges or aftermarket bs in the way or cluttering the dash. Still able to use the oem ecu with the built motor just reprogrammed with my fuel and timing maps with a few additions to the ports. Attention to detail. I've also decided to get rid of the stock gauge cluster and install a Racepak IQ3 in its place. Used them before. It'll help to keep watch of the motors vitals since the stock gauge cluster has unreliable stepper motors. Hence why people buy aftermarket ones to clutter their dash and pillars.