Fire > Road Block

[GTR-N1]

F3 is blocked atm

Hazard Reduction got out of control > crossed the F3 > Closed

2 days ago, Hazard Reduction got away from RFS and NPW and burnt 100s of hectares at Winmalee > Springwood Rd blocked.

dummies...

[TREGTR]

Ironic that those who fight them start them. I think they call that job protectionism

[Duncan]

not dummies.

we've just had 2 really wet years followed by an upcoming hot summer. they need to do something before it gets very serious later in the year

[GTR-N1]

Burn offs should be between May-July with planning in April.

We all know in the Mtns that winds can be horrific in Aug-Sept - and that's every year!

Up here we're still trying to catch up after Greenie bans 10yrs ago and since...

[TREGTR]

http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/news/firefighter-jailed-for-black-saturday/story-e6frea6u-1226340999521

Less chance of success then Terry

[GTR-N1]

So 1000s of Winmalee residents missed out on RFS NPWS phone texts on Tues/Wed as fire crossed Springwood Rd and threatened homes, it was revealed at our community meeting last night

[FordyR31]

Ironic that those who fight them start them. I think they call that job protectionism

Not sure about this considering most are volunteers..... I do agree that these could be done in the winter months when there is very little chance of hot weather and usually hardly any wind. Would be the logical decision.

[ianjb]

Terry,

I understand the "dummies" comment is off the cuff, and I know you mean no harm, but I just cant let any negativity be directed towards the RFS

still <3 u

not just to Terry -

I work closely with the RFS both in my weekday job and weekend job, and I see what and who they battle every single day of the year.

Sydney is surrounded by bush and it's one of the worst cities on the planet for bush surroundings. despite that, they lose a minuscule amount of private property each year. They are statistically 3-4 fold the greatest fire fighting service in the world. and they are 90%+ volunteers.

Dont hate on them... ever... You wont like what i have to say if you do.

On the note of hazard reduction over winter / other months....

what a lot of people don't realise is that It is very much not about the heat / sun. If anything it is the least concerning element.

They plan around hundreds of factors such as things like air / ground moisture, wind, rain, lightning storms, all sorts of weather conditions(air pressure etc. ) and absolutely the most important factor, flora and fauna.

If you burn down the bush in winter and you will kill thousands of wildlife that are less active in winter.

Burn in winter and you damage the tree, they get no regrowth in spring you end up with acres of dry semi recovered wood come summer.

Burn in winter and the ground moisture stops the undergrowth from burning. This leaves it open to the elements in summer to dry out and become fuel. (Undergrowth is what fuels fires)

the major reasons why they do hazard reduction now is because this is the time of year that you get regrowth as well as and many animals are becoming much more active and can flee easier.

They burn it off now so that the tree's have regrowth for the summer. Regrowth is healthier and much more fire resistant and this protects the tree over summer. This also provides better living conditions for animals over the hotter months.

Please of all things, don't question what they do, and when they do it. There is 100 reasons for every action they take.

TLDR: Many people just don't understand Fire.

[ianjb]

So 1000s of Winmalee residents missed out on RFS NPWS phone texts on Tues/Wed as fire crossed Springwood Rd and threatened homes, it was revealed at our community meeting last night

did they say why?

[TREGTR]

No need to get emotional Ian. Not sure about your threat ("ever") above. People are entitled to take a different point of view than you. I also note the rant thread.

[TREGTR]

Not sure about this considering most are volunteers..... I do agree that these could be done in the winter months when there is very little chance of hot weather and usually hardly any wind. Would be the logical decision.

It's called tongue in cheek

[ianjb]

No need to get emotional Ian. Not sure about your threat ("ever") above. People are entitled to take a different point of view than you. I also note the rant thread.

I'm not emotional. Although as you pointed out, We are all entitled to certain liberties. Don't try and take my rights away in the same post as you try to emphasis yours.

It's not a rant, I didn't bring up personal gripes about the RFS or Hazard Reduction.

Turn off the presumption that my post is negative, go back and read it again. Understand that it's a reply to points people have brought up and is just a brief explanation from someone who has a decade and a half of experience with handling fire and explosives.

You'll most likely note that it wass far more constructive to the topic than this:

Ironic that those who fight them start them. I think they call that job protectionism

By all means Tim, Lets have a discussion on the negative aspects of the RFS.

[GTR-N1]

I did meteorology at Macquarie U & wind during Aug-Sept can be sudden and vicious.

October can be a better month for hazard reduction than above, (depending on moisture readings on the ground as well as humidity).

Thanks for informing me about animals 'sleeping' in winter, but other than snakes, goannas and lizards, I wasn't aware that mammals could be at risk during a winter hazard reduction! Please tell me which mammals or ground birds like lyre birds cannot escape a grid burn??????

Ian Holman of Faulconbridge RFS couldn't tell me either.

[GTR-N1]

Btw, anyone notice the wind patterns in the past 2 weeks even?

[Daleo]

Ironic that those who fight them start them. I think they call that job protectionism

Terry,

I understand the "dummies" comment is off the cuff, and I know you mean no harm, but I just cant let any negativity be directed towards the RFS

still <3 u

not just to Terry -

I work closely with the RFS both in my weekday job and weekend job, and I see what and who they battle every single day of the year.

Sydney is surrounded by bush and it's one of the worst cities on the planet for bush surroundings. despite that, they lose a minuscule amount of private property each year. They are statistically 3-4 fold the greatest fire fighting service in the world. and they are 90%+ volunteers.

Dont hate on them... ever... You wont like what i have to say if you do.

On the note of hazard reduction over winter / other months....

what a lot of people don't realise is that It is very much not about the heat / sun. If anything it is the least concerning element.

They plan around hundreds of factors such as things like air / ground moisture, wind, rain, lightning storms, all sorts of weather conditions(air pressure etc. ) and absolutely the most important factor, flora and fauna.

If you burn down the bush in winter and you will kill thousands of wildlife that are less active in winter.

Burn in winter and you damage the tree, they get no regrowth in spring you end up with acres of dry semi recovered wood come summer.

Burn in winter and the ground moisture stops the undergrowth from burning. This leaves it open to the elements in summer to dry out and become fuel. (Undergrowth is what fuels fires)

the major reasons why they do hazard reduction now is because this is the time of year that you get regrowth as well as and many animals are becoming much more active and can flee easier.

They burn it off now so that the tree's have regrowth for the summer. Regrowth is healthier and much more fire resistant and this protects the tree over summer. This also provides better living conditions for animals over the hotter months.

Please of all things, don't question what they do, and when they do it. There is 100 reasons for every action they take.

TLDR: Many people just don't understand Fire.

Very true ianjb; there's a lot people don't understand; but I don't believe ANYONE should be questioning the intentions of the RFS and their loyal volunteers.

We are bloody lucky to have them, and they very nearly lost a crew in Winmallee as I understand it.

There were a few very big mistakes made with regard to the loss of control after the hazard reduction.

A couple of mates hold fairly senior ranks in the Mountains, and were surprised at the slow response to the flare up; one even decided to have his crews on standby AT the shed 2 hours prior to receiving their first page.

He made his judgement based on what he could hear on his home scanner.

There is also an app for iPhone & android that you can listen to the RFS channel if people are interested; I'll see if I can dig it up.

There has been a lot of "back slapping" in the aftermath, but there are a bunch of RFS people that think it definitely shouldn't have gotten as bad as it did.

They were caught completely flat footed by the abrupt change in conditions.

Also Tim, I have been watching with increasing frustration your apparently inflammatory posts in various areas of the forum.

You are clearly an intelligent individual; so I am at a complete loss as to why you go around and stir up unnecessary trouble in some excellent threads.

Then, when people call you on it; you seem to feign innocence and either go on the attack, or try to divert attention from your comments.

I'm all for a bit of shit stirring, and I'm often in it up to my armpits; but can I suggest that whether or not it is your intent, you have a little more of a think.

People are not yet familiar with you and your sense of humour, and frankly, right now; you're coming off like a bit of a prick.

I'm sure you're not, and I believe you have a tonne to offer, but a lot of it is getting lost in translation right now.

I don't want this to turn into a gang up or anything; so if anyone thinks I'm being presumptuous, let me know & I'll delete.

Cheers, Dale.

[ianjb]

I did meteorology at Macquarie U & wind during Aug-Sept can be sudden and vicious.

October can be a better month for hazard reduction than above, (depending on moisture readings on the ground as well as humidity).

Thanks for informing me about animals 'sleeping' in winter, but other than snakes, goannas and lizards, I wasn't aware that mammals could be at risk during a winter hazard reduction! Please tell me which mammals or ground birds like lyre birds cannot escape a grid burn??????

When I say "less active" I don't mean hibernate/sleep. I mean not as active as summer months. With half of all Australian mammals being marsupial and the overwhelming majority of these marsupials being observed to partake in the act of Torpor, the population of "less active" animals in the colder seasons is large.

Then we have reptiles, Almost all reptiles brumate.

Hibernation and daily torpor in Australian mammals

Fritz Geiser and Gerhard Körtner

Centre for Behavioural and Physiological Ecology, Zoology, University of New England, Armidale NSW

http://www.une.edu.au/ers/staff-profile-doc-folders/fritz-geiser/geiser-koertner-AustZool10.pdf

Torpor or heterothermy has been observed in three of the four orders of Australian marsupials, the Dasyuromorphia, the Notoryctemorphia, and the Diprotodontia. An estimated 43% of the Australian species are heterothermic. Only the bandicoots (Peramelemorphia) are currently considered to be homeothermic (Hulbert and Dawson 1974; Warnecke et al. 2007), perhaps because their omnivorous diet permits feeding throughout the year and most are substantially larger than the majority of Australian heterothermic mammals.

[TREGTR]

I'm not emotional. Although as you pointed out, We are all entitled to certain liberties. Don't try and take my rights away in the same post as you try to emphasis yours.

It's not a rant, I didn't bring up personal gripes about the RFS or Hazard Reduction.

Turn off the presumption that my post is negative, go back and read it again. Understand that it's a reply to points people have brought up and is just a brief explanation from someone who has a decade and a half of experience with handling fire and explosives.

You'll most likely note that it wass far more constructive to the topic than this:

By all means Tim, Lets have a discussion on the negative aspects of the RFS.

I'm not emotional. Although as you pointed out, We are all entitled to certain liberties. Don't try and take my rights away in the same post as you try to emphasis yours.

It's not a rant, I didn't bring up personal gripes about the RFS or Hazard Reduction.

Turn off the presumption that my post is negative, go back and read it again. Understand that it's a reply to points people have brought up and is just a brief explanation from someone who has a decade and a half of experience with handling fire and explosives.

You'll most likely note that it wass far more constructive to the topic than this:

By all means Tim, Lets have a discussion on the negative aspects of the RFS.

Emphasis"e" is spelt with an "e", as is "emotional"

[TREGTR]

Very true ianjb; there's a lot people don't understand; but I don't believe ANYONE should be questioning the intentions of the RFS and their loyal volunteers.

We are bloody lucky to have them, and they very nearly lost a crew in Winmallee as I understand it.

There were a few very big mistakes made with regard to the loss of control after the hazard reduction.

A couple of mates hold fairly senior ranks in the Mountains, and were surprised at the slow response to the flare up; one even decided to have his crews on standby AT the shed 2 hours prior to receiving their first page.

He made his judgement based on what he could hear on his home scanner.

There is also an app for iPhone & android that you can listen to the RFS channel if people are interested; I'll see if I can dig it up.

There has been a lot of "back slapping" in the aftermath, but there are a bunch of RFS people that think it definitely shouldn't have gotten as bad as it did.

They were caught completely flat footed by the abrupt change in conditions.

Also Tim, I have been watching with increasing frustration your apparently inflammatory posts in various areas of the forum.

You are clearly an intelligent individual; so I am at a complete loss as to why you go around and stir up unnecessary trouble in some excellent threads.

Then, when people call you on it; you seem to feign innocence and either go on the attack, or try to divert attention from your comments.

I'm all for a bit of shit stirring, and I'm often in it up to my armpits; but can I suggest that whether or not it is your intent, you have a little more of a think.

People are not yet familiar with you and your sense of humour, and frankly, right now; you're coming off like a bit of a prick.

I'm sure you're not, and I believe you have a tonne to offer, but a lot of it is getting lost in translation right now.

I don't want this to turn into a gang up or anything; so if anyone thinks I'm being presumptuous, let me know & I'll delete.

Cheers, Dale.

Thanks for the personal attack Dale. I suppose you speak on behalf of everybody? As for my comments they can be taken any which way is desired including upside down. Personally, I couldn't care less what you, or others may think of me. Perhaps you should consider the forum rules more closely next time prior to posting though.

PS - a thread does not protect you from defamation.

[Daleo]

Thanks for the personal attack Dale. I suppose you speak on behalf of everybody? As for my comments they can be taken any which way is desired including upside down. Personally, I couldn't care less what you, or others may think of me. Perhaps you should consider the forum rules more closely next time prior to posting though.

PS - a thread does not protect you from defamation.

Ok Tim; if you want to take everything as a personal attack on your own head be it. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about.

I never said I was speaking for ANYONE but myself.

It's patently obvious that you don't care what other people think, which was why I brought it up.

You're threatening to SUE ME? Seriously? Fantastic.

That's it from me; I'm out.

[ianjb]

Emphasis"e" is spelt with an "e", as is "emotional"

just to prove dale's post you turn on the spelling bee champion?