Is It Worth Rebuilding Coilover? Other Qn Regarding Camber

[SargeRX8]

Hi guys,

Chasing some knocking in the rear, I did some inspection on my suspension and I found a liquid/crud build up on the top of one of my rear shocks(the noisy one). I couldn't take it out as I was running out of light and couldn't be stuffed removing the back seats.

The point where the oil/stuff is is just where the piston exits the tube and it was enough to start sliding down the outside of the shock. They're a set of the HSD coilovers, the green/black set. I bought them off here about a year or two ago and had this knock there for some time. I don't know if its something else but its essentially a thump/knock whenever going over a bump, speed hump, pot hole or rough road on that one side. I've seen some people get quoted nearly $250 for a rebuild(per corner) and if thats the case, I'll either sell these as worn and just buy a new set. Input would be good. What interest me though is the cylinder says its gas filled, if so what is the liquid just a lubricating system?

My second question is regarding rear camber. I have too much negative(?) camber. The top of the tyre is closer in towards the car. Its eating away at that side of the tire. What do I need to buy or replace to have this rectified?

Are there any reputable shops anyone can suggest which can do on car suspension checks to determine if there is an issue without needing to pull everything apart?

I have also noticed in/out play in my rear half shafts. There is no up down play. I get clicking sounds when taking off and reversing, from the rear.

Edited November 10, 2014 by SargeRX8

[GTSBoy]

Gas charging in dampers is not to do the damping. It is to suppress the formation of bubbles in the oil. The oil gets squeezed through valves on each stroke. That's what does the damping. Oil coming out means buggered seals. Usually accompanied by damaged hard chrome surface on the shaft.

HSD's dampers are probably rebuildable, but given that you would want and need to rebuild all 4, and that it would probably cost you a grand to do so, if you can find someone who has the bits needed, then you're probably better off binning them (please don't sell f**ked dampers to people, even if you tell them they're f**ked, so we don't have yet another one of these "I bought some hectic coilovers and now there's a noise in teh back of my car" threads).

Talk to someone like MCA, or contact SK to see what he wants for a set of B6s modded to carry the springs from your HSDs. Either way you can probably keep the springs and just buy the dampers.

The negative camber is either from being too low, or from something being worn or broken. If it's too low then you need to put adjustable bushes or adjustable arms in the rear uppers and radius arms. If you go arms, use the Hardrace ones with rubber bushes rather than ball ends. They're legal and not as harsh to drive on.

Rear half shaft issues are probably wear in the CVs. Take it to a CV place for a look if you;re worried. Skyline ones are pretty strong and don't tend to break even when they're f**ked. But the cars are nicer when they're not.

[SargeRX8]

Very much appreciated GTSBoy.

After mucking around last night, the clunk/loud knock seems to have gone for now. What I am left with is a hollow rattling sound. Its coming from the same corner but definitely not the same clunk/knock as before. I've sent SydneyKid a message regarding options.

I've ordered some parts online, I've now got the Hardrace adjustable rear camber arms, solid diff mounts and looking to possibly get solid subframe mounts(battling axle tramp). This is the real shit storm though. I have no idea if this rattling sound is from the shock or if its from some other old 18 year old rubber component. I'm thinking of buying a whole rear subframe, changing all the mounts, then dropping my old subframe and fitting the new one in with hardrace components the whole way round.

[chiksluvit]

I remember you've mentioned in your other post that your car was of reasonable height?

Which side has excessive -ve camber? If it's front then check upper inner. Almost all r33s have worn bushes there from what I have seen

Rears adjustable so if you have tried adjusting the rear then it's time to change bushes

Edited November 11, 2014 by chiksluvit

[SargeRX8]

Yeah the car never sat low(exhaust hung low though). It was a little lower than stock. But probably since I am running bigger wheels, it will force them to go into -ve camber. I've jacked the rear up about 30mm now. The diff is sitting about 130 - 140mm from the ground. Both front and rears have camber wear.

I really am considering doing all the bushes in the car, including engine and gearbox mounts its just unfortunate that most of the money ends up going into labor since all this stuff needs to be press fit.

How high does your R33 sit from the bottom of the diff(just below the drain plug)?

[GTSBoy]

But probably since I am running bigger wheels, it will force them to go into -ve camber.

Not true.

[SargeRX8]

Not true.

Good to know. If my parts come this weekend I'll be under there checking things out. Hopefully there are some obviously cracked rubbers.

[chiksluvit]

How high does your R33 sit from the bottom of the diff(just below the drain plug)?

Never measured the height but front was adjusted according to the lower control arm, the fronts are at the lowest height I can get with LCA still pointing down (one groove lower on bilsteins the LCA will angle up slightly, wasn't able to get the front LCA to be dead straight) and rear was adjusted so the drive shafts were dead straight. Cost me a few trips to the wheel aligner caus I wanted to get it on the machine so I can check it from the bottom

Taking your old silver r33 as reference it should be one groove higher on the bilsteins at both front and rear

I think I ended up with around -1° camber at the rear, -1°30" to -1°40" at the front. Front upper inner bushes were replaced which helped with camber big time compared to the flogged old bushes. camber wear is within acceptable range at the moment although my wheel aligner reckons I still have a bit too much -ve camber for a street car

Edited November 11, 2014 by chiksluvit

[GTSBoy]

FWIW, it does not matter what "angle" the LCAs appear to be. For the point of them being "horizontal", what matters is the relative height of the inner pivot point and the balljoint at the outer end.

The arm itself can have its lower or upper surfaces horizontal, angled up, angled down, curved like a banana, doesn't matter.

Also, FWIW, there is no magic in "horizontal" either. So long as it is close to even height at inner and outer end, then the arm is going to swing through the closest to the vertical part of the arc on both typical bump and typical droop. If the outer end is significantly lower than the inner, it just means that the wheel is swinging outward as it swings up (giving an initial positive camber change usually) and if the outer end is significantly higher than the inner end then the opposite is true (meaning the wheel swings inward as it swings up and usually means gaining neg camber under compression and positive camber under droop). Obviously the more neutral it is the happier the suspension purists are.

[chiksluvit]

I remember speaking to someone before about skyline ball joints being pressed to the LCA and therefore the arm is a good reference for position of outer ball joint relative to the inner pivot point

I had a toyota ae111 at the time (few years back) where the ball joint assembly was bolted onto the LCA so we had to measure the distance to ground compared to the inner pivot point and adjust the coilover accordingly. Angle of LCA was ignored at the time. Then the guy working on the car brought up the above about skylines

[sweefu]

You can buy whole new dampers for HSD coilovers, from memory most are around the $160ea mark.

[GTSBoy]

That says a lot. About half the price of a decent damper.

[sweefu]

To be expected when the whole set is $1299 RRP.

Having said that, I still recommend them and rate them highly, I've used them in two of my cars with good success.

[SargeRX8]

Is there an Australian distributor for HSD

[sweefu]

Yes there is, Otomoto in Sydney

http://www.otomoto.com.au/

Very helpful too.

[SargeRX8]

Yep spoke with those guys. Just noticed they're not in North Parramatta anymore. It is $160 for the shock which is awesome. Apart from this knocking noise in the rear they've served me well. If I can get out there tomorrow to grab a shock then I'll do that otherwise my next day off, next Tuesday!

[GTSBoy]

Don't buy just one. At least buy 2, if not all 4. Nothing worse than mismatched dampers.

[MrStabby]

^ yep, or if you're a real tight ass at least take the other rear out and take it through one stroke in and out, then compare the force required to do that with the force required to do the same on the new one. If its much different then obviously the other rear is already stuffed too.

[SargeRX8]

Ill probably grab two rears. It makes sense.

I got another qn guys. Ive got my hands on a subframe. What id like to do is get the bushings out and new ones in then just swap everything out of my car onto this frame then back onto the car. This is for the rear mind you.

Ive tried bashing the thing out with a 2kg hammer and a 60cm handle. Won't budge. I tried using a cylinder with a closed end and a bolt through to try pull the diff bushes out and no dice. My cylinder began to flex and it looked like i was just gonna tear the rubber off the mount. I tried bashing a chisel in between the subframe and bush and looked like id cause damage to the subframe before anything would happen. I dont want to burn the thing. Are there any special tools that can be used apart from a massive press or could/should i just take it to a shop and have them press it. Im doing solid diff mounts with whiteline or hard race subframe mounts. Im contemplating solid subframe mounts. People say their is more noise and shock transfer to the chassis but if all it does is increase noise but eliminate energy absorbance and rebound from the rubber mounts then ill do it.

[GTSBoy]

Workshop with a press. It's the smart way to do it.