Ls1 Exhaust Systems

[zebra]

Not on an LS,

But it depends on the pipes...2 1/8 try-ys with a crap collector will lose more bottom end than a set of 1 3/4" 4into1s with a good collector.

That said, I've had a bit to do with, Hi Torque, he did the tuning on a heap of mates LS commodores years ago, he knows his way around an LS so I would listen to what he has to say.

[AngryRB]

sounds like good advice, they seem to work on LS1's a lot, actually thinking about them tuning it, as my tuner used there mainline dyno for my R33 so would be good to have a comparison between the two cars on the same dyno.

[Plattsy]

mate has 4 into 1 on vx2 clubby. mafless tune minor mods etc etc

i have wrx wagon aboput 200kw at all 4

3rd gear pull at 80-kmh. i smashed him. like by a huge f**king amount. it shouldnt have happened.

so yea, hes bottom end has gone. big time. i know its mafless tuned, but i dont know if it was done with the 4-1s.

[Count Grantleyish]

lol yeah, it's shite.

I legit mashed the pedal all the way to the floor with TC off.

[Plattsy]

there you go.

we do think it needs a retune tho....

[Count Grantleyish]

I have 3.9 final drive btw.

[Count Grantleyish]

Gonna change the zorst and get it retune.

Looking for something that gives me ground clearance as 4-1 doesn't agree with number of speed bumps at current height thinking complete stock VY2 exhaust.

[Ben C34]

If you change stuff after a mafless tune it will throw the tune right off so its not a fair comparison.

[Plattsy]

we dont know if it was tuned before or after they where fitted.

[gtr jet]

Doesn't the engine light or something come on as soon as you change the exhaust manifolds in an LS powered commodore?

[Count Grantleyish]

Que?

[AngryRB]

Hmm, not sure if you guys are joking, when I had the worked VS 5L I smashed a WRX on the highway, its funny when WRX guys with their loud exhausts get out noised and raped by an angry loud V8 or skyline, they just end up looking silly.

[Plattsy]

Hmm, not sure if you guys are joking, when I had the worked VS 5L I smashed a WRX on the highway, its funny when WRX guys with their loud exhausts get out noised and raped by an angry loud V8 or skyline, they just end up looking silly.

yea lol, that wrx was prob stock.

even funnier when people think like you and then get anally torn by a wrx wagon.

[Ben C34]

Well in yiur case a worked Rex beat a commodore with an exhaust and tune, not sure when or how well it was tuned so its not a fair comparison.

You got a Dyno chart for the Commy?

I'm sure with a decent tune the 4 into ones font give away that much down low.

Mine with the cam is fine . of course it likes to rev but doesn't feel like its lacking.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Ben C34

[AngryRB]

Yeah there's always someone quicker, I'm not a holden fan but for a daily driver and long trips they are great, I'll leave the drag racing for the R33 and keep it to the track.

cheers for the help guys, will post a dyno sheet and comparisons when she all done

Edited March 17, 2015 by AngryRB

[Count Grantleyish]

Well in yiur case a worked Rex beat a commodore with an exhaust and tune, not sure when or how well it was tuned so its not a fair comparison.

You got a Dyno chart for the Commy?

I'm sure with a decent tune the 4 into ones font give away that much down low.

Mine with the cam is fine . of course it likes to rev but doesn't feel like its lacking.

No dyno sheet.

The reason I wanted to take 4-1 out is ground clearance, it kept hitting few speed humps.

And tune is on cards since it drinks fuel like crazy for size of tank.

[Plattsy]

literally an infinite tank.

[cuspub]

I know I'm late to this conversation however I would like to throw a couple of my thoughts into the conversation (probably all of which have been covered already).

Harking back to the original question, it sounds to me like a possible fitting issue, as in a part of the system is touching somewhere. Who knows.

As to systems and combination for the LS, having once owned (sold it 2 years ago) one of the better known LS parts supply companies in this country along with a large workshop, I've seen pretty much every available option.

IMHO I would go for 1 7/8" headers and a twin 3" (the 3" only because 2.5" systems never sound as good as the throbbing note from a 3"). In reality, with a stock engine the twin 3" is overkill, but whatever.

I suggest 1 7/8" for the simple fact that if you end up going with an OTR and a decent camshaft, then the 1 7/8" will work a treat. As to cam selection, wow now there's a can of worms.

Finally, should you be considering a cam at some point, understand that the implications with an already low torque at low rpm engine in the LS1, that a largish camshaft will necessitate a hi-stall in auto cars (and with it a trans cooler), or in manual cars (besides a HD clutch) a low diff ratio. The stock 3.46 won't work with any cam larger than, for example, a 220/220. Any larger and 3.7, maybe 3.9 or if a killer cam and quarter mile is your thing, 4.11s. P.S with the auto and a cam, a lower ratio diff is also recommended.

I've probably gone off point a little, so sorry for the waffle.

[Thunder]

I'm also late to this conversation, and owning an Exhaust Shop that specialises in custom, we have our own dyno, and our niche is GenX Commodores and non droning systems.

The worst model for drone is an auto wagon, and our early test mule was a VX auto wagon.

The newer (VE-VF) worst model is the auto wagon with AFM and that is my new test mule.

Most advice out there is based around dyno numbers and 1/4 mile times, but 99% of these cars are just daily drivers with the occasional track visit. The people that say a DF system is the best is because the Performance Workshop told them it is the best. Most haven't had more than one system, so how would they really know? What suits a manual sedan and doesn't drone, will drone badly on an auto. What doesn't drone with diff gears will drone with stock diff gears. A 20 year olds view of no drone is completely different to a 40 - 60 year olds view. There is lots of conflicting info out there, which is because everyone has a different need, different taste, and different mods.

Performance Shops, and a lot of Exhaust Shops that don't like doing custom worl will sell and recommend the brand that they make the most profit on. If they don't have the Exhaust Capability, they will recommend the brands that come as kits from front to back, and that is why DF and X Force are so popular.

The exhaust is a compromise. 4>1 hang low on stock FE2 suspension (around 90mm or less on some brands). The legal limit is 100mm so it is a defect without even lowering your car.

There are many brands out there, but for quality, we recommend Pacemaker in most instances. For an auto, tri-y's are a good compromise as they are speed hump friendly. They are good in the low to mid range, but at the top of the rev range they will run out of puff. 0-100km/h they are fine and that's where most of your street driving will be.

Someone above mentioned excessive fuel consumption. The 5.7 litre is very doggy down low, so when you go too big it makes the problem worse. This means you have to push the pedal further, and this means excessive fuel consumption. On the VX wagon I had a single 3.5" system and the only change we made was changing from twin 2.5" into 3.5" to twin 3" into 3.5". The wagon is heavy and with stop start driving the fuel consumption rose from 14 to 17 litres/100. For sound, dyno numbers and 1/4 mile times it would have been a positive move, but being a shopping trolley for the wife meant a huge increase in fuel costs over the life of the car, so we changed it back. Using big 4>1 extractors or a twin 3" will have the same result.

All of the different brands of twin 2.5" system are basically the same design. Most are made in Asia, compete against each other, and can't add an extra dollar to the quality. They are OK on a manual, but drone badly on an auto. The idle is disappointing, they don't sound too bad when revved, but cruising they drone.

On my website there are pictures of the DF Kiss Pipe, but since then they changed to a "Clayton's" merge as the Kiss Pipe takes about 25 - 30% off each pipe, so it is much more restrictive. Now they keep the pipes separate and just have a small hole, which makes the note meatier, but does little for drone or to improve the power and torque. DF make the pipework here, but I believe they buy the muffler bodies off Redback or HM, etc.

The Chev has a different firing order, so the sound just doesn't sound as good as the early Chev, Holden V8, or even the Ford engine with a twin 2.5" system. We found the 3.5" single system sounds much better and we make them in several loudnesses so that they are drone free on manuals and auto's. This is a customer enjoying his Loud 3.5" system http://www.surefloexhaust.com.au/media/video/vysv8.mpg

I had a customer who had race cars with twin 3" and he said it sounded fluffy, and he changed to 3.5" single and loved it. Chev's in Carrum Downs fitted superchargers to a couple of VY- VZ and they were running twin 3" and the customers hated them because of the drone. He put our 3.5" system on and they loved driving their cars again. They were pushing 400rwkw on the dyno.

Do a search on "Sureflo 3.5" and you will find plenty of video clips and lots of info.

If is was me, I would ebay the DF system - they have a good name so you might get a good price for it.

The 3.5" system is the go and they are $680 in mild steel + tip & freight, which is much cheaper than extractors, Ballistic 100cpsi Racing cats, diff gears, dynamat sound deadening, hooker mufflers, etc and you get a much deeper idle, race car growl when nailed, and it goes quiet when cruising.

Cheers

Greg

[Count Grantleyish]

Wow, a decent reply here.

Gotta ask you Greg, in your opinion, how restrictive are stock hsv exhausts? Say VX? Or even VY2 which people say the headers are the one to get.