Car Too Firm/skittish/struggling For Grip.

[No Crust Racing]

Oh and because the tyre wear seems to be on the outside edge.

[GTSBoy]

Wait until you've fixed other things before changing the rear camber.

[No Crust Racing]

Where's the fun in that...

CHANGE ALL THE THINGS

I get your point though.

[No Crust Racing]

Collecting suggestions and so far they are.

- Raise ride height to get LCAs back to parallel

- Increase camber to around -3.5 front and -2-2,5 rear

- Add adjustable caster arms and aim for around 5-6degrees (which will help camber also)

- Drop spring rates to 6/4.5.
- Return to stock swaybars.

A friend of mine who is running Tiens with 8/6 rates and similar bars has the above done (but is also running AD08R and in wider sizes) and his car is far more balanced.

Thoughts?

[GTSBoy]

Probably not bad. The amount of camber that is good for you will of course depend somewhat on the tyre you're running.

I wouldn't be afraid the keep the big ARBs if you back off the spring rates.

The other thing you need to put in your list is my first suggestion, to add some bloody damping back into the suspension!

[No Crust Racing]

I forgot to the check the settings but I am fairly sure they are on or close to max soft - or do yo u mean via springs?

[GTSBoy]

I meant wind them UP from full soft to something more suitable for the spring rates (and ARBs).

[No Crust Racing]

Hmm, ok.

Normally when I have them set more firmly, it costs me grip.

[GTSBoy]

Go back to what I wrote in 1) in this post.

[No Crust Racing]

Gotchya, thanks

[ichi-go]

Looking at your setup, it seems like you have a really thick rear swaybar compared to what you have at the front

Looking at the Whiteline s13 swaybar sizes:

They have 27mm front and 22/24mm rear

Currently you are running 26mm (softest) front and 25mm rear

Generally on the s-chassis, you would want to set the front to full hard (for swaybar) and tune the rear to suit

In regards to the lower control arm, as long as you have it parallel to the ground, it will be sufficient and roll center do not suffer

I run -2.5 front, 7 degree castor and -2 rear 1mm toe in if that helps

Plenty of grip however i also run 245/255 tyre size

[No Crust Racing]

I am running 27mm front, softest setting, and 25mm hollow gtr rear, which roughly equates to 19-22mm solid I read. The whiteline rear bars are solid. So stiffer again.

Thanks for info.

Interesting about your comment re hardest front as I imagine that would cause it to understeer more.

[ichi-go]

27mm is the middle bolt on the swaybar, when you soften it, it means it's -1 mm so it means you're running 26mm

Your older video, is that on brand new tyres? And how long have you had these tyres for?

[PN-Mad]

Collecting suggestions and so far they are. [/size]- Raise ride height to get LCAs back to parallel[/size]

- Increase camber to around -3.5 front and -2-2,5 rear

- Add adjustable caster arms and aim for around 5-6degrees (which will help camber also)

- Drop spring rates to 6/4.5.- Return to stock swaybars.

A friend of mine who is running Tiens with 8/6 rates and similar bars has the above done (but is also running AD08R and in wider sizes) and his car is far more balanced.

Thoughts?

-3.0 to -3.5 on the front -1.5 on the rear.

Yes to castor arms, I think mine is around 6 degrees maxed out

Forget changing spring rates, mine are tein monoflex 8/6 and are fine. Play with the dampening. I wind my fronts to about 90% hard, rears 30%

Toe has already been mentioned- the 1mm mark is about right.

Don't return to stock sways, just drop the link of the rear bar altogether and see how that goes.

Also, have the car corner weighted if not done already. Winding heights up and down can really stuff up the balance.

I'll post a vid of my 180 at the track for ..... Science!

[PN-Mad]

[No Crust Racing]

What tyres?

[PN-Mad]

Michelin S8D (medium) slicks, 240/640 17s

The second vid, the rears were worn out.

[No Crust Racing]

Much better tyres than mine.

Most of the advice in getting about more camber or harder dampers is from people running much wider and grippier tyres so I'm in too minds about how much it applies to me.

[PN-Mad]

The tyres are shot honestly, they are hard as. They measure 235/45 in the conventional sense. Michelin just decides to put more number on them.

I've got 235/45 RSRs as well. They are on my road wheels, and I've tracked them too. They aren't awesome but they don't suck. What your struggling for is balance in my eyes. Your front end is out performing the rear end. So you need to increase the rear grip, and limit the front ends impact.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what tyres you run, having the car setup to extract the maximum grip from whatever is available in the tyre is the goal.

It would be worth sending the car to a suspension tuning workshop with track car experience and explaining what your feeling on the track.

[GTSBoy]

Running harder damping has nothing to do with the tyres though. It's all about making sure the damping is sufficient for the springs.

Let's put it this way. You used to run softer bars and needed the dampers wound down to make it work. You've added spring rate through stuffer bars and now it's not happy, with your description of how it drives sounding like it's underdamped. Therefore, potential solution is to add damping.

The front-rear balance stuff is a whole 'nother issue. As is changing camber. Adding roll stiffness to the chassis can actually well require you to add camber anyway, so it is definitely something that might need a tweak as part of the exercise. If any of the other advice makes you go faster, then you are going to need more camber.