Sump extensions, benefits & products available?

[Alf]

I am not to goig to pick on other people's designs, they may well be superior.  What I will say is, the ones I use for circuit racing have wings both sides and they have one way doors out of those wings.

I see your point.

So the doors open towards the centre of the sump/pickup?.

When turning left, the oil moves to the right keeping the right door shut and opening the left door allowing more oil in?

Or have i got it wrong?. :Bang:

[dangerous_daveo]

Can someone please explain what a dry sump is and its advantages/disadvantages over a normal/the above bigger sumps are?

[Sydneykid]

I see your point.

So the doors open towards the centre of the sump/pickup?.

When turning left, the oil moves to the right keeping the right door shut and opening the left door allowing more oil in?

Or have i got it wrong?. :Bang:

Spot on.

Can someone please explain what a dry sump is and its advantages/disadvantages over a normal/the above bigger sumps are?

This is a Peterson 5 stage dry sump system.

So called because the pump has 5 stages, 4 scavenge and 1 pressure. It picks up oil from 4 places, three in the sump and one on the cam covers. It pumps the oil it picks up via a filter into the top of the tank. So there is very little oil in the sump itself, hence the term "dry sump". The pump is supplied oil from the bottom of the tank and pumps it under pressure via a filter and oil cooler into the engine.

The advantages are;

1. The tank is tall and skinny, unlike a sump which is short and wide. So there is no chance of the oil moving away from the pump supply. No oil surge.

2. The oil comes out of the engine with air mixed in it, as it flows into the tank it runs over a strainer/ramp system that removes any air from it. This means the engine is only supplied pure oil, not aerated.

3. The tank is remote, so the oil is not heated by the engine while it waits to get used again.

4. You can have as much oil in the dry sump tank as you want. I have seen 25 litre oil tanks, you can't get that much oil in a sump. This means the oil does less work as there is more of it. so it lasts longer.

5. The oil is filtered twice

6. Any blowby is sucked up by the scanvenge stages, so no oil mist in the engine or anywhere else (like in the intercooler as happens with standard sytems).

7. There is no oil in the sump to get hit by the crankshaft as it spins. If you choose the sizes of the scavenge stages correctly and have good engine sealing you can achieve a partial vacuum in the sump. So not only is the crank not hitting oil as it spins, it is also not hitting air. There is a good horsepower advantage in doing this.

8. The dry sump tank can be mounter remotely (in the boot) so the weight distribution is improved. Ditto the breather and the filters.

There are a few more, but that's the majors.

Hope that helps:cheers:

[RB_26]

Thanks for all the feedback on this one guys. Just one thing to add to my intial questions, how does the catch can actually benefit the system? and were should you tap into the pipes to take the feed to the tank and lastly.. should it exit the catch can to under the car or return back to the engine? SOrry could someone explain the benefits & usage? On topic as I feel I want to hit the oil mods in one hit when I do them.

Thanks guys, please I know this has probably been done to death & I am still searching!

[Amaru]

This is a Peterson 5 stage dry sump system.

Can you reccomend anyone/anywhere in ACT/NSW area that can install these, and estimate prices? You mentioned further above dry sump can be had for the same price as an aftermarket jap brand oil pump.

[browny]

I always thought dry sumping was hideously expensive, ie $1000-1500 just for the pump.

Are there disadvantages (other than cost) for dry sumping a road car? The reason I ask is that i'm doing a conversion thats very tight, and i'm not 100% happy with the modified sump i'm using at the moment (too tight around steering, marginal capacity, shape).

[Fitzpatrick Speed Works]

a dry sump set up in my GTR, if i made it all myself just used the pump and bought the resevior and all the fittings and made the custom sump and pickups needed was going to set me back around $4000, so in a shop budget for aroun 6g as a reasonable price!!! WHen i get home i will post up some pics of my sump that i have been building will trap doors, it holds 10 litres!!

[Alf]

10L is a fair bit to hold in a sump, It wouldn't be cheap with regular oil changes.

Is 5-6L enough for a n1 oil pump (rb30det) ??? I don't want to be spending shit loads on syn oil when it gets changed at 5000-8000kms intervals.

[Sydneykid]

Can you reccomend anyone/anywhere in ACT/NSW area that can install these, and estimate prices? You mentioned further above dry sump can be had for the same price as an aftermarket jap brand oil pump.

Price comparison to buying a Jap "brand name" wet sump pump;

The last pump I used on an RB was a 3 stage (we use 5 stage on V8s), cost ~$700

The tank was 7 litres, cost $400

We use aluminium pipe through the cabin, cost $150

The aluminium weld on fittings were $50

The short hoses were $200

I made the pump mounting bracket from some scrap aluminium say $20

We already had a drive pulley, they are ~$30

Total ~$1550

Obvioulsly if you are going to dry sump the engine it needs an oil cooler, but that would be the case with a Jap brand name pump upgrade, so no extra cost there. Ditto lines, filter and block adaptor. If you don't do the dry sump, then it needs a wet sump with wings, one way doors and baffles. That actually costs more than a dry sump pan, but is most likely offset with the cost of the fittings to plumb up the sump.

It's a reasonable cost comparison, I know which I would choose.

PS; If you need to do the full job (including oil filter, braided stainless lines, remote filter mount and block adaptor) then add around $900. Plus the sump conversion to dry sump, around $800. Total ~$3,200 plus fitting labour if you can't do it yourself.

[pnblight]

Is a dry sump suitable for everyday street applications and where would you mount the pump as not a lot of room left on the front of a rb26 with a/c etc etc