Tuning Questions

[Mark0]

Hey all

I recently got my car tuned by Chiptorque at the GC.

They did a good job in getting the car to run nicely and smoothly, and overall it came out with more hp than it had whe it went in, but i have lost acceleration it feels like a slug now when it is floored .. like it takes a long time to spool or something.

it is running the smae boost as it was when it went in but they did retard the timing a lot as it was way to advanced and was pinging (dont by a mechanic in bris that i wont mention).

IS there anyway to get some acceleration back into it without bringing the pinging back...when it was tuned by another company at the GC a few months ago it had crap HP figure but accelerated really hard.

so i want the power i have now with the acceleration i hade then...anyone got some ideas, they would be greatily appreciated.

i am hoping to get around 250ish rwhp with a dump pipe, oil breather and some more tuning..the only other problem i am having is fuel economy..i have none :| 200-220 k's to a tank.

there is a pic of my dyno sheet there

[Steve]

Are you running a SAF-C or similar? as your AFR's dont look too bad. The only thing I could suggest is start thinking about an aftermarket ECU and maybe a good bleed valve or better still an EBC. 200-220k's per tank? Who spends alot of time on boost then?

Edit: you might want to start thinking about a new clutch too

[blind_elk]

Did they tune it on the dyno, or did they fit the one-size-fits-all chip?

Sounds like they mucked up the acceleration enrichment.

[Mark0]

I have a Mictrotech ltx12 in the car

and the 200ish k's is around town

[Steve]

So the 200 ish is this due to microtech using MAP? I still get 10L/100km in peak hour traffic using a PFC - Sorry to be pursuing the clutch thing, but the first sign I had that the clutch was going was when I fitted the PFC and it just seemed to lack the sudden surge when the turbo went on boost - then when the FMIC went in the bloody thing fried on the way to the dyno. Is the car still making boost where it was before the tune? With a dump you would expect it to come on pretty early - with the dump on mine done boost comes on pretty quickly after about 2500rpm.

Sorry if I'm not helping much here, just throwing in ideas

[Mark0]

hrmmm well the map for the fuel was meant to be better after it was tuned ..but it looks no better atm

i am pretty sure it still boosts at the same time

the clutch aint the best but it is not slipping yet

just the feeling of no acceleration i noticed big time after the tune...but u can see the dyno sheet and the difference.. ?? got me beat

[macka]

Heres a couple of things that came to mind........

Your still running way too rich where your accelerating has dulled.

If your running a standard cooler your intake temps will be too high for the timing advance!

They may not have regapped the plugs to .8mm which will cause pinging at higher boost levels and hotter intake temps

Even with slightly retarded timing look at your af differences you should of still picked up power at 4000rpm I think its way retarded

[meggala]

and I did tell you about that microtechs bad fuel consumption geez even my 450 sel with a stuffed motor got better fuel economy

meggala

no Idea's on thetuning thing but I think timingmighthave soething to do with it

meggala

[rev210]

Your plugs might be farquared. Dyno tuning can do this, when playing around with rich and lean mixtures at high rpm.

Interesting how you say you want the 'power' you have now and the acceleration you had 'then'. I think the most recent guys tuning it calibrated the dyno to 'wanker' mode (%compensation) to show a big HP reading.

I would think you had power 'then' and not now (who cares what the dyno says).

[Mark0]

Ok the cars does run a lot better now than it has but it feels as though it accelerates slower

I have brand new iridian plugs in the car when it was tuned so they aint stuffed

i have a customer front mount on the car.

and as for the fuel microtecs are not that bad "whatsisname" gets atlest 300k's when he is flogging the car and he has the same ecu.

I dont know how it is using this much fuel and giving me fk all performance.

i beleive the guy at chiptorque said it was at 10 degrees timing

he took out about 7 degrees. straight away as this was the reason it would ping so easily

[rev210]

Originally posted by Mark0

Ok the cars does run a lot better now than it has but it feels as though it accelerates slower

I have brand new iridian plugs in the car when it was tuned so they aint stuffed

i have a customer front mount on the car.

and as for the fuel microtecs are not that bad "whatsisname" gets atlest 300k's when he is flogging the car and he has the same ecu.

I dont know how it is using this much fuel and giving me fk all performance.

i beleive the guy at chiptorque said it was at 10 degrees timing

he took out about 7 degrees. straight away as this was the reason it would ping so easily

If the iridiums went in 'before the tune' they can still be rooted or need a clean.

With regards to the timing : Have they re-mapped the ignition curve? If this isn't right it would explain everything including your fuel ecconomy.

I was under the impresion that microtech can do ignition control.

[Steve]

Perhaps you should think about giving someone else a go at the tune? From what whatsisname has said he doesn't seem to be having the hassels that you have. I think it is also possible to set the AF ratios for idle and cruise when running from MAP, as this has a huge effect economy, without doing this your car will run rich as, and even with iridiums, once they are fouled, they wont do the job well. Did your tuner tell you what he set the AF ratios for when you're not on boost?

[Mark0]

Hrmmm

the plugs are brand new..they went in when they tuned it, so they will be ok.

I dont know bout the af ratio's .. i do not have the microtech software so i can tune with the laptop yet so this is a big drawback.

So far chip torque has done the best outa the people who have tried...but still it is not what it should be

the idle is a bit funny as when u hammer it and back off really quickly while breaking and come to a stop the car can sometimes drop revs so much it will stall..it does not do this much after the tune but it happens once in a while.

I think i need to pay whatsisname to come to QLD and tune it =)

thanks for all yah help guys..i am just unsure who to take it to

[whatsisname]

G'day Mark,

You need Tim (from RPM Performance Centre) or Martin (Donnon of HPI/Hot4s fame) to tune the LT12 mate! Pity you're up there & they're here in Adelaide

What you may be able to do is get a copy of Tim's current maps & up-load them?! Tim has been improving the LT12 tuning set-up each time he does a RB25DET. He then saves the current improved tune & loads into a new LT12 on the next car he does. This way the part throttle/cruise, in fact the entire mapping is closer to spot on right from the start. If you can get him to do this for you then you only need a decent local tuner to tweak the maps slightly to suit your set-up.

SLY33 & Freebaggin (both LT12 Adelaide guys) have maps that would probably suit your modification level (FMIC, more boost, exhaust/intake etc.. but still stock turbo). The logistics of getting Tim's (or one of the other guys) maps into your ECU is tricky but it could be done. My maps wouldn't be much good for your car as the bigger turbo/fuel tweaks (pump & pressure) & cam gear adjustment would be waaaay off what you need.

Another more extreme solution - If you're up for a loooong drive you're more than welcome to come down to Adelaide & get the car tuned once & for all, you can stay @ my place for a few days no prob's (wife & bub won't mind ). TRP in NSW would be another Microtech tuner that should be able to get results. Isn’t Mazfix (QLD) an authorised Microtech agent? It’s a matter of finding a tuner that really knows the product. Knows how to use it, & what it can do!

Re your PM's - I'll email you shortly mate (setting up a new email account atm)

Oh yeah! You're not gunna' believe it but I just spent 10 days in QLD with work! Went to Willowbank on Sat' 23rd T&T. Even talked to a few SZ guys (9.9 @ 144!).

[SLY33]

Hi all. Just adding my 2cents on the microtech LT12. Megs, you love jumping on the microtech fuel consumption band-wagon, haha.

I wanted to do city test, but was only in adelaide for 2 days, which were spent with foot to the floor, and driving in the most fuel consuming way possible. So i can report my absolute WORST CASE fuel consumption. It was 260ish km per a tank of 98 unleaded. And guys i seriously mean the car was flogged, as i was making up for lost time -in any case, my last performance car was a 355 stroker torana with a fat holley sucking avgas, so for me even if 260k's per tank was all i could get, id be laughing!

Im going back for the summer, so ill be sure to do a propper test, and settle this fuel debate once and for all. 260k's a tank is bad, but i dont think its that bad considering how it was driven. What do the rest of you get out of a tank when giving it stick?? -you have to be giving it stick for the WHOLE tank! not just half or even most of it, before you go telling me you get like 350k's per tank of hard drivin or whatever!

And Matt (whatsisname) any news on the LT12 upgrades to closed loop or quick lambda?

[Mark0]

Whatsisname you recon you could get a map for me off one of those guys and put it on cd..and send it when you send the other stufff

that would be great...

i will save the current map and then play with it...then try a map from one of you with the closet specs to my car.

and sly33 does 200k's sound good for normal town driving

[whatsisname]

Mark,

The best bet is to see if SLY33 (Alan) can get you his map? As it'll be his maps (or ones very similar) that you'll want. Failing that contact the guys @ RPM here in Adelaide & see what they can do for you? Ring 08 82772266 & ask for Ivan or Tim regarding LT12 tuning. Ivan is actually a SA forum member (can't remember his alias?).

Come to think of it......The best way to do this is to buy a Microtech adapter (~$75) from the guys @ RPM, you'll need one regardless if you want to access the LT12 for tuning! When you contact them to buy the adapter ask if they'll load their current RB25DET maps into it! Hey presto! All you need then is the software (no prob's there).

After that's all done get the car to a decent local tuner that has a fair idea about the LT12 laptop software & you "should" be right.

If you do ring RPM tell them you've been speaking to me (Matt - Burgundy GTS25t etc.) & after they gone, "oh no not something to do with him again!!! , they should be happy enough to help you out.

[Mark0]

sweet thanks man

what adapter is needed ???

i will call em i think

[whatsisname]

No prob's mate. Hopefully it'll all come together nicely for you.

The RPM guys will know what you need re the Microtech adapter.

[SLY33]

would rpm just give away their maps? Isnt that what they get paid to put into peoples cars??

Your welcome to my map, only mods ive got is FMIC, full exhaust, intake, bosch 044 pump, running 12psi, no pinging, 199rwkw. The tuning was actually done with the STANDARD FUEL PUMP believe it or not, and the 044 went in straight after. (dont ask me why, i think they forgot that i wanted the pump- i had to get them to put it in after the tuning)

Ill be back in adelaide within a week, so maybe matt can extract the map out of my ECU. Or even better, wait till i go to Tilbrooks to get Martin to tune it, then get the map after that!! Bargain mate From what he did with whatsisnames car, im sure he can improve mine, as im not completely happy with the look of the current dyno sheet.. I got a few humps and dips that i reckon could be smoothed out.