'Body Roll' Advice Please

[eXc]

Gday Guys,

I have another thread http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...017#post1383017 going regarding fixing my camber. I had decided I was going to get all the bushes I need to fix that up, plus get some castor.

However, after I went in a motorkhana on the weekend (first time I have thrown the car around in a sliding fashion) I think maybe I need to look at a better suspension setup aswell.

Here are some pics

http://ribfeast.no-ip.com/mgmotorkhana05/skyline_1.jpg

http://ribfeast.no-ip.com/mgmotorkhana05/skyline_2.jpg

http://ribfeast.no-ip.com/mgmotorkhana05/skyline_3.jpg

Now, I am pretty strapped for cash, and I am NOT interested in throwing lots and lots of money at my car for stuff that I don't really need. BUT...

With that much roll (keep in mind that I was in no higher than 2nd gear, so it's not like I was going fast) should I be looking at a better setup? If so what? Do I just get some decent springs, or do I need to go for coilovers or something. I am 100% NOT willing to spend over $2000. And I am a bit "meh" about spending more than $1000 really. I had planned the castor/camber fix to be up to $1000, so if I was able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone, then maybe we can find a comprimise.

I also need to raise the car as it is *just* under 100mm clearence at lowest point (ie. illegal in NSW)

I plan to use the car as a street car (not street racing...just general usage) I will be doing the occasional track day and drift day. I am going to go to every motorkhana I can get to, but I obviously dont need to spend money on the car for a motorkhana. If I am good at drift (find out next weekend!!) then I will be trying to get to the track every month.

What are my options, and are they really worth it in reality? I am particulary interested in SK's answer.

Thanks in advance

Chris

[blind_elk]

Uprated springs and shock absorbers won't go astray. I'm personally not a fan of coilovers (the adjustable type) for basic road-cars - just don't see the need for them.

Springs and shocks can only do so much. If you want to stop the body roll with springs only, then you will be up for a kidney transplant inside a week (the ride will be sooooo harsh and stiff, you will feel it when you drive over a cigarette paper!). Anti-roll bars (sway bars) will solve that part of your problem.

Check out www.whiteline.com.au - they have a kit for the R33.

Track and drift are different. You don't want drift at the track. And the suspension setup for one will (probably) be incompatible with the suspension requirements of the other. But as in all things, it's all a compromise.

[Sydneykid]

What the blind_elk said, I would add that adjustable stabiliser bars will enable you to change the balance for circuit, motorkhana and drift. The best bang for buck suspension upgrade by far, ~$450 if you do the fitting yourself (there is a how to guide on the forum). The next best is wheel alignment settings, caster and camber as you have mentioned.

[eXc]

ok so how do I determine what shocks and spring rates I should be looking at?

Something like these http://www.otomoto.com.au/HDSystems/index.htm maybe a good deal. As it seems I can adjust camber on them aswell. I mean that will go towards saving on the camber bushes. Altho I am guessing that it won't be camber adjustable on skylines?

Comments?

Cheers

Chris

[Beer Baron]

camber adjustment using the strut top wont work on the line as it's only suitable for macpherson type suspension, not wishbones.

[Kristov]

Im in the same boat as eXc. I have a stock r33 (suspension wise) and was also looking for cheap handling upgrades. So what i gather from SK's post is that adjustable stabiliser bars would be the best place to start for basic track and drift work.

Also would GTR sway bars be a good upgrade for GTST? Cheers

[scathing]

If you're strapped for cash I'd buy swaybars and drive on them before looking at a coilover kit.

I put dampers in my car (on stock springs) and I only found a marginal improvement in handling after playing around with the settings, but with the swaybars were instantly noticable.

[amosite]

I would say the best cost effective mods are:

Front and rear whiteline Adj Swaybars (about $200 each)

Front castor Kit $160

This gives you a certain level of tune above and beyon tyre pressures.

From here, I would say that front and rear braces are worth good gains (About $165 ea)

(I have an R32 Cusco Fr strut brace for $120)

The next step would be camber bushes (about $80 per pair)

[Sydneykid]

Also would GTR sway bars be a good upgrade for GTST? Cheers

Nope, the 2wd Skylines need larger front bars than the 4wd. The standard rear bars are way too small on both.

[Kristov]

Nope, the 2wd Skylines need larger front bars than the 4wd.  The standard rear bars are way too small on both.

Ok the whiteline kits are looking very good at the moment. But would it be really be worth while get the adjustable ones (as oppossed to a fixed one) considering i know next to nothing about suspension setups? Cheers

[amosite]

Ok the whiteline kits are looking very good at the moment. But would it be really be worth while get the adjustable ones (as oppossed to a fixed one) considering i know next to nothing about suspension setups? Cheers

Adjustable suspension components means you can "tune it" to suit your driving style..

[Sydneykid]

Ok the whiteline kits are looking very good at the moment. But would it be really be worth while get the adjustable ones (as oppossed to a fixed one) considering i know next to nothing about suspension setups? Cheers

They are only worthwhile if you are going to adjust them. If you just want to put them on and forget about it, then get fixed rate bar and spend the saved money on something that you will use. Adjustable bars are only better if you ADJUST them.

[Greg]

Nope, the 2wd Skylines need larger front bars than the 4wd.  The standard rear bars are way too small on both.

The standard rear R33 GTR swaybar is 27-28mm. This is comparable to the whiteline 28mm heavy duty bar. Although they would be made of different materials which could affect the torsion strength.

[tim83mm]

Nope, the 2wd Skylines need larger front bars than the 4wd. The standard rear bars are way too small on both.

SK please explain why this is? thanks

[Sydneykid]

The standard rear R33 GTR swaybar is 27-28mm. This is comparable to the whiteline 28mm heavy duty bar. Although they would be made of different materials which could affect the torsion strength.

Standard GTR bars are hollow:cheers:

[Zahos]

But the steel is more tensile in the GT-R rear sway bar than the GTS-t, is it not?

I have put the GT-R rear sway bar on and I felt a considerable difference. Could that be simply b/c I upgraded my worn rubber bushes to new polyurethane items? (I think I have over tightened the bushes too!)

[blind_elk]

The GT-R bar may be made from a thicker-walled tube, which would make it a "heavier" bar, both weight-wise and torsionally. I reckon the Whiteline bar is solid.

[Sydneykid]

The GT-R bar may be made from a thicker-walled tube, which would make it a "heavier" bar, both weight-wise and torsionally. I reckon the Whiteline bar is solid.

Yep, wall thickness is relevant and the Whiteline stabiliser bars for Skylines are most definitely solid, spring steel bar from BHP.

[amosite]

They are only worthwhile if you are going to adjust them.  If you just want to put them on and forget about it, then get fixed rate bar and spend the saved money on something that you will use.  Adjustable bars are only better if you ADJUST them.

IMO For the extra $25, adjustment is no bank breaker but more importantly it allows easy tuning of the suspension from Over steer- neutral-understeer.

If your at the track its not like you can play with heights or spring rates and only a certain amount of "tuning" can be done with simple tyre presure changes

Adjustable bars allow a quick change by repositioning the locating bolts. Takes 5 mins if that!

With a Fixed (or GTR) Bar you dont get any flexibility- Just a cheap upgrade

[scathing]

IMO For the extra $25, adjustment is no bank breaker but more importantly it allows easy tuning of the suspension from Over steer- neutral-understeer.

I agree. with the fact that the money's negligible.

And the other thing is, the guys who make your bars can't guarantee your setup. If you're running different spring and damper rates to their development vehicle, then the swaybar effect you'll need is different.

Even if you only set them once and leave them be its worth it, since you're more likely to have a swaybar that's a good match for your suspension rather than one that's in the same ballpark.

Otherwise, you may as well say that unless you're going to sit there tuning it all the time, why get a programmable PowerFC over a Powerchip or some other "pre-flashed" ECU tune.