Japan

[RB-Sam]

hey

im thinkin about moving to japan on a working holiday possibly next year

i currently have been working in a japenese restruant for about 1 year doing cooking and i want to move to learn japenese, and the usual reasons why people move. im unsure on where i want to go but most likly tokyo or somewhere close.

i cant learn any japenese here as monday is my only day off and i work 6 days. im not sure if i would like to work at a resturant over there as im told by the chefs that it is alot different in terms of strictness {cant think of the proper word}.

im just wondering how everyone whos over there now ended up there and how you found it on when you first moved. did you know the language? did you know many people over there?

so far i havent made any strong plans but for something like this requires much planning

cheers guys

sam

just incase your wondering im 18

Edited October 14, 2005 by RB-Sam

[akeenan]

i studied japanese at swinburn for about 1 year before coming here.

I came with Nova on a working holiday visa because it was the easiest way get into the country...as the company who hires for Nova does everything for you...

I already knew what Japan was about because I had been 2 times before and had/ still have the same japanese girlfriend.

Then I studied Japanese full time at a few different schools while working in the evening for a while.

Then I continued self study everyday. speaking as well as textbook study.

I then moved from Chiba/ to Saitama where I am basically doing a home stay with my girlfriends family but also have the space of my own appartment.

Then I got a new job in the public schooling systems over here. which is really good for my Japanese study.

Dont even think about working in a restaurant... I doubt you could anyway... Unless your fluent in Japanese and want to be treated the same as a working japanese salary man(you dont!) stick with what will give you the most money for the smallest possible amount of work. You can work about 28 hours a week with some private english companies and make the same as a 60 hour a week salaray man.

Im currently work 66 hours a week and although I am a little tired I am making a lot of money.

Teaching english sucks most of the time.. but it is a good experience ..... to begin with.

[Donarto]

Hey Akeenan,

I'm going on a trip to Japan in february, my first, with view to after a couple of trips and some much more exensive Japanese study moving there. Do you recommend doing lots of japanese study before trying to live there????

Cheers,

Duncan.

P.S: What type of company is Nova??? and what sort of english companies work over there??? Just to include in your thinking, by the end of next year i'll have a Bachelor of IT majoring in Software Engineering.

[akeenan]

f**k i just spent 30 minutes on a pst and my computer f**ked up ....

ill re write it tomorrow.... soory

[akeenan]

Donarto why do you want to come to Japan?

If it is to learn the language then study as much as you can before coming. Many people often say you dont need to know any Japanese when you come and I often here people say you dont need to learn it at all while being here. If you cant speak any Japanese it would be very hard and frustrating. These types of comments are usually from those who work in private english companies Eg: Nova. When I first came to Japan I was stuck in the `Nova environment`. I was living in a nova house with other Nova employees. Everything was Nova Nova. Nova has the reputation for being basically the worst company to work for. The money is good and a lot of the students are good too. But the company doesnt care about its employees. And I feel very sorry for the Japanese staff who have to work in that company.

There are heaps and heaps of different private english companies here.

I recommend trying to get a Job at a public school . Elementary, Junior High, High or even Uni.

Not only do you experience Japan to the fullest it is great for your study.

Ps: I have a similar degree

Edited October 16, 2005 by akeenan

[totoro]

RB SAM: i think there are few options you can consider here. it would depend on what you want to do in japan. i have many friends in japan who are working in a non english teaching environment and teaching english.

firstly you will need to determine your rough plan of how long you may want to stay there and be realistic. dont fool yourself and know your limits.

in my pinion people move to japan for many different reasons such as loving japanese culture, wanting to escape, wanna meet japanese chicks, travel, teaching english, go see car events/street meets, etc. so ask yourself what you want to do.

if it is just a little change of environment then teaching english is probably the best way as working casually or temping will pay you crap all and you wont be able to survive, let alone enjoy your stay. plus im not sure on the requirements of working holiday, maybe you need to relocate every so often?

if it is more for cultural reasons or love to live in japan, then you need to look it more seriously such as getting a degree (which can take few years) and move there and teach english for a year or so and get a job in a company in japan. i have few friends who have done this so it is not impossible, but this will be just like getting a job in australia except in places like tokyo there are heaps (i mean heaps) of people who can speak japanese and english fluently so your competition is pretty tough!

this is not by far the easiest option but will give you a stong foundation in staying longer in japan and make money but salary man work like a dog (as i did it for a year) and unless you really love japan, im sure you will feel home sick or just tired of working.

either way you choose i think it will be best to go to japan for a holiday and check it out yourself. go to tokyo or osaka and travel for a while and get a real feeling of japan and the culture. go and catch the train (in rush hour if you dare... though if you work in office environment this will be your reality! which sux) or try to get around with limitted knowledge of japanes and you may understand where akeenan is coming from.

in the long run this will give you a real feeling of japan. and you can make a decision on what you want to do. some people have a very DREAMER view of japan from watching TV, cartoon or what ever and the reality is once you live there the novelty wears off in 6 months and you start to ask yourself why you moved in the first place.

other than that what you may want to do in terms of learning japanese can be to go easy on your job now and lessen the hours to study japanese or change jobs. in my opinion you will need to know how to speak japanese if you really want to experience japan and its culture. some people get by by speaking minimal japanese and hang out with ex pats too much. by doing that you are neglecting yourself of a full cultural experience.

feel free to mail me if you got more questions. and i am japanese who grew up in yokohama/perth and worked in japan last year.

hope this helped.

masahiro

[email protected]

[n154thrlz]

Hey man,

Why don't you apply for JET? Applications opened this month. www.japan.org.au i think the link is... Unless working for a private company like Nova is better?

Gav.

[akeenan]

The JET program is good.. there are also many other companies that hire ALTs .

Ive said it before the best way to get a good job is to be in Japan and look.

Id follow the advice totoro has given.

[RB-Sam]

cheers totoro

my main reason is to learn japanese and such things as you mentioned, i would learn here but i have 1 day off a week. this is where i kinda get stuck on what to do. i dont have any qualifications all i can do is cook so that blows the jet program out the window.

i think i may holiday there first.

tell me if you where japanese and knew no english or anything about australia do you think you could come and live in perth. is it just as difficult?

the head chef said thats what he did when he came here new nothing and only brought half a suitcase of only summer clothes as he thought it was always hot here :lol:

[totoro]

RB SAM: in my opinion you will be comparing apples with oranges... the environment is different here and Japan or at least Perth. The people are much nicer and you are likely to get accepted as a foreigner as people would like to help you (to an extent) but as far as finding a job, i think it will be as hard anywhere you go if it is not your native country and dont speak the native language.

having said that i know of a guy who is japanese and is a mechanic in a local toyota dealer. he came with his family and basically made his way through it, but he was lucky he is a good mechanic or no one would sponsor him for a working visa. his english is not good but he is studyin hard and i guess you dont need much english as a mechanic.

while looking for any job you must consider what the employer will gain out of hiring you? because in Tokyo as much as any business cities, thats what it comes down to and it does make sense, cos they invest in you to perform a job and make them money.

you can come to australia with not much money or language knowledge because there really is no big cultural gap such as corporate/social heirarchy, laws/rules, social systems, etc. coming from japan to australia is like coming from a big city to a little city, if tokyo/osaka and sydney/melbourne were compared. so it is like coming from a fully high speed city to a slower city.

people are more easy going, friendly to talk to, likely to help and less stressful at work. all this is very dependent on the person ofcourse, but that is what i can observe. adaptability wise (without the language barrier) its like coming from New York/London to Sydney/Melbourne, so the transition will be easier.

Language wise, like i said it has been done and it has been done to death may i add. sky is the limit. if you want it bad enough you will adapt or get home sick. the CEO of Nissan is not Japanese, which means if you have skills, you will find a job in Japan (that was an extreme example but illustrates my point).

at the end of the day the transition is as difficult as you make it. people have difficulties in moving cities in australia because their people skills are bad or can't make new friends, etc. so it is what you make of what you have.

i think the best option though as akeenan has suggested, to learn as much japanese as you can before arriving, cos once you arrive there is no backing out. also there is no assurance that once you arrive you will have so much free time to learn a new language.

you will watch TV and not know whats going on, so after watching those crazy quiz shows and after laughing your @SS off, you start to feel isolated cos you just dont know what IS really going on and you start to want to know what is going on. that is when the novelty has worn off and reality hits.

also make use of japanese people here in australia, and learn the culture as well form them, and get different opinions too. teach them english and learn japanese from them.

the more you prepare the easier it will be for you. so the foundation is important as much as your game plan. and trust me when i say this, no one will be able to teach for very long, unless you wanted to be a teacher as a kid! i went to one english teaching interview and i thought 'nah this is not for me' and got a office job. btw i did get a TESOL certificate before i left so i knew what it took to be an English teacher (which was my backup plan)

having said all that, some people will survive there way through Japan. i met one guy, at that english teaching mass interview thingy, and he was telling me how he was having fun getting drunk every night meeting chicks and crashing his scooter... i just thought 'dude, what are you doing here? whats your purpose?' you know what i mean. he seemed to have no idea, and jumping from job to job and getting drunk.

if you are 18 you got a future ahead of you so dont waste time, and make sure this trip to japan will lead to something. like a career in the end if you want.

i saw a car magazine the other day, the latest issue (november) of Holiday Auto. its not like option or drift tengoku but more of an Wheels type mag. and it had the only foreign motoring journalist in the world who writes his own column in Japanese! even i cant do that, cos both my english and japanese is shocking! hahahahaahaha but seriously this guy is aussie and he is doing his own thing, and so can you. his name is Peter Lyon if anyone wants to know....

i think a holiday will be better and you can scope the place out. once you work in tokyo, its no holiday! lastly why do you want to learn japanese? that maybe the key to making your plan to work. you can always to a student exchange as a friend of mine got a scholarship to study in japan for a 6mths or a year period. she just minored in japanese or something and she basically won the scholarship in university. maybe this could be a better idea?

if you got any more questions, fire away.

masahiro

Edited October 17, 2005 by totoro

[totoro]

oh i almost forgot, the first time i came to australia i had a headache everyday from information overload! hahahahaha and you will get tired from all the different culture shocks eg. language, lilfe style, work, people, etc.

so if you work under this condition pretty much you are throwing yourself into a lifestyle you have never experienced before. so thats why i suggest the holiday first.

[RB-Sam]

indeed im planning and thinkin of giong on a holiday mid next year with a friend who has been many times {imports cars} so ill make the trip with him as he travels around and see whats its like

i want to learn japanese because it interest me and so i can talk to japanese people at work and go on holiday to japan alone and get a good looking japanese girlfriend

plus its another skill to add whilst im still young

[CircusMonkey]

If you are serious about the cooking thing,that could be an exellent

way in.

Edited October 17, 2005 by CircusMonkey

[Donarto]

Yeah as totoro and akeenan said, i'm going on a holiday there first to see if it where I really want to spend a significant portion of my life. And to get a feel for the culture. Because you guys are right..it may be very romanticised by the manga and anime i watch. So i'm gonna go on my holiday in January and see what I think after that.

Cheers guys,

Duncan.

p.s: any of you in japan atm?? or will be in Janurary???

[Polski]

p.s: any of you in japan atm?? or will be in Janurary???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

think theres a good half dozen of us in Japan. I'm way outta tokyo thou, closer to osaka.

[Rezz]

If no ones mentioned it already (Masahiro types too much ) I can't stress having a back up plan enough.

Give yourself an amount of adjustiment time (however long you think is enough) and make sure you can leave with no strings attached if things don't go your way...

Theres one thing I hated most and that was winging Uni dropouts who came to Japan for whatever reason, then only to tell everyone in ear shot that they're just here to make enough money to 'get back home' because it wasn't what it was cracked up to be! Strangely enough most of them were women!!!

[Donarto]

Lol fortuneately i have the resources to get there and back Even if i went and lived there but thanks for the tips Rezz

[drunkenmaster]

Just to play devils advocate, and by no means is this a definitaive list, but here are some of the things I deal with almost everyday that make my life difficult and most people wouldnt consider and probably still wont after they read this without staying in a foreign country. I have spent extended time in Japan, China and Germany and Japan is by far the easiest for me, but that is still very difficult. I wouldnt dream of planning to move here without putting in a decent effort in language training at home first, I only spend time here on business assignments. I try and get by and extend on my limited Japanese, but it is very tough to get what you want if you come here with no language skills.

Imagine doing the following:

Ordering food from restaurants with no English menus and staff who do in no way understand English.

What would you do? Point to a random bit of text and hope for the best?

Even when you are being seated and they are asking if you want to be seated in smoking or non smoking, for all you know they are asking eat in or take away?

Reading Railway maps written in Kanji only.

Luckily the stations themselves have signs in hirogana and english, but this means if you are not familiar with your route, you have no idea where you are until you are there.

Asking for anything, anywhere.

Looking for an item to buy? Want to know how much something is? Not sure where something is?

Responding to questions asked of you when you are buying something.

When you buy something in Australia, think of the interaction you have with the store assistant, now imagine you have no idea what they are saying. Do you just smile and nod hopefully or shrug?

Luckily in general I find the Japanese very helpful especially if you go to the effort to use Nihongo when you can, but none the less this is not an english speaking technological dreamworld that many people seem to think from movies and car magazines.

[akeenan]

pfft those situations are no problems ...

If no ones mentioned it already (Masahiro types too much  )

yes theres really no need for anyone else to type anything. its kinda like a race get in on the thread before him

[Bart Japan]

Absolutely right anyone who thinks that buying and selling needs language needs to travel some more. THe almighty dollar is all that it takes for trade and negotiation.

Everyone speeks the same langauage. I could even make them understand discount in a shop and have saved up to 20,000yen ($200) doing so.

Food is easy. Point and then eat if it tastes bad then try and remember or say what is this, in english and try to remember not to have it again. OK so you will forget and you will eat the same thing again that you found discusting but then that is cultural experience isnt it.

If you cant find a map in english then you need to talk to your local international association. They give away shitloads of free stuff and are there for free help with translation etc. If you havent found an int assoc then you are suffering from NOVA itis and trying to learn a culture from your living room with the TV on english translation.

BElieve me you can come here knowing nothing as long as you let people help you. Obviously if the company you work for isnt in to setting up stuff for you then it will be hard expecially finding a place to live but that is what the helpful people at SAUJapan are for.

EOF