Hks 2.8l Stroker Kit (in Rb26)

[NXTIME]

It's still a standard stroke RB26.

[bfi.inc]

RB30 Single over head cam engine was made and used in FORKLIFTS in japan and you can offen find them in oz

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

exactly.RB30 was a budget build exclusively for Aust. and never available anywhere else

[bfi.inc]

Cannot comment on 2.7/2.8 litre RB26"s, but having experienced the OS 3L,the extra cubes is awesome.The 2.7/2.8 is seemingly preferred by the Japanese drag racers due to revability.However sly33 is seemingly looking to build a street car. So go for torque.HP wins dyno comps,torque just wins. Small cams,small turbos and extra capacity if you have the budget.Oh and one more thing,Its all good to buy the HKS kit but remember,it will only be as good as the engine assembler.In that respect the OS 3L short motor is a winner.(if you have ever seen inside one it is a work of art).And of course one would want to choose their TUNER carefully which ever path they choose.

[SLY33]

yeah this is true, but ive got it all sorted. see there's me mate, Dave, down the road, who builds killer motors in his kitchen, he'll throw it together for me for a carton or two .

yeah the OS motor is a pearler, but you wouldnt expect anything less for its price.

[djhatton]

i believe the willall team rebuilt their OS engine before it'd been fitted to anything and the clearances were'nt spot on... for my $20k+ i'd hope for something perfect, just quietly...

and anyone who flames the rb30 better take a good look at from the insides. there's nothing at all wrong with their design and very similar to later model rb's. the power people pull reliably out of these things should be another indication of how good they can be.

d

[bfi.inc]

i believe the willall team rebuilt their OS engine before it'd been fitted to anything and the clearances were'nt spot on... for my $20k+ i'd hope for something perfect, just quietly...

and anyone who flames the rb30 better take a good look at from the insides. there's nothing at all wrong with their design and very similar to later model rb's. the power people pull reliably out of these things should be another indication of how good they can be.

d

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WRONG.First OS 3l they purchased did over 100 passes (Nearly all in the 9"s)and was pulled down just for maintenance.Was as new but while it was apart just put rings and bearings in it(Didnt even need them).When John Munro bought his,he decided to let his engine builder from his V8 days pull it down and rebuild it.Apparently chev sprint car engines are just like RB26"s.

[blk180]

MMMM Lots of money on that last page nice kits

Edited December 7, 2005 by blk180

[Mik]

i believe the willall team rebuilt their OS engine before it'd been fitted to anything and the clearances were'nt spot on... for my $20k+ i'd hope for something perfect, just quietly...

and anyone who flames the rb30 better take a good look at from the insides. there's nothing at all wrong with their design and very similar to later model rb's. the power people pull reliably out of these things should be another indication of how good they can be.

d

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you put an RB30 in a GTR with any big sort of power, see how long it takes to crack the block. An RB30 block wasn't desgned to have the load of a front diff hanging of the bottom of it. I know of a few people that have tried to run decent power with them and they don't last.

A bread and butter BNR32 05U block will handle 700-800PS any day.

And anyone that thinks that RB30s don't exist in Japan is kidding themselves. There are squillions of them, but they started life in forklifts / generators and earth moving equipment.

I reckon they are a good option in a rear drive skyline or maybe in a reasonable mild GTR...but not for any serious power.

And what you say about the Giken engine not having spot on clearances...what is spot on? Were they too big or too small? Bearing clearances or piston to bore? I reckon they would be set up with about 2 thou on the bore and 1.8-2 thou on the bearings.

I know Tomei build big power engines in Japan with 2 thou on the mains, 1.8 on the big ends and 2 thou on the pistons. Most people would call that too small for a big power engine, but they do last...and you wouldn't even know it has forged pistons.

And you think that 20k is expensive for a decent engine? Try to buy the parts for it...a decent crank is 5 grand plus. Another 4 grand for a run of the mill nissan block, a couple of grand to get it sleeved. Add another 2.5g for decent yankee rods. Pistons and rings of any sort are $1500. Then you've got all the fastners and spacer plate.

Then you've got the machining costs and the labour to assemble it. And have you ever seen some of the Japanese assembly rooms? Climate controlled to 273K and 1 atm pressure. Absolutely spotless with assemblers in white coats. And then you say the clearances weren't spot on?

[Gav]

Hi Mik

Sorry, interesting post but my pedantic streak has to question a couple of the quoted figures:

Another 4 grand for a run of the mill nissan block, a couple of grand to get it sleeved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bought a brand spanker 24U block for $3,700 in Australia and was quoted under $2,000 for a "plain vanilla" 05U block.

And have you ever seen some of the Japanese assembly rooms? Climate controlled to 273K and 1 atm pressure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

273K is zero degrees Celcius - surely the engine assembly rooms don't need to be this cold?

Cheers,

Gav

[Mik]

Hi Mik

Sorry, interesting post but my pedantic streak has to question a couple of the quoted figures:

I bought a brand spanker 24U block for $3,700 in Australia and was quoted under $2,000 for a "plain vanilla" 05U block.

273K is zero degrees Celcius - surely the engine assembly rooms don't need to be this cold?

Cheers,

Gav

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oopsy...I meant 293.

I thought the blocks were more than that? 3700 is cheap for an N1 and I alwqays thought the 05U's were only a few hundred cheaper.

[Gav]

oopsy...I meant 293.

I thought the blocks were more than that? 3700 is cheap for an N1 and I alwqays thought the 05U's were only a few hundred cheaper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A question - apart from the price (of course) is there any inherent design in the OS3L engine that would affect the long term reliability as a road engine?

[knore]

Wow this car is going to be insane! Twin GT-RS on a 2.8L stroker kit engine!

[djhatton]

If you put an RB30 in a GTR with any big sort of power, see how long it takes to crack the block. An RB30 block wasn't desgned to have the load of a front diff hanging of the bottom of it. I know of a few people that have tried to run decent power with them and they don't last.

A bread and butter BNR32 05U block will handle 700-800PS any day.

And anyone that thinks that RB30s don't exist in Japan is kidding themselves. There are squillions of them, but they started life in forklifts / generators and earth moving equipment.

I reckon they are a good option in a rear drive skyline or maybe in a reasonable mild GTR...but not for any serious power.

And what you say about the Giken engine not having spot on clearances...what is spot on? Were they too big or too small? Bearing clearances or piston to bore? I reckon they would be set up with about 2 thou on the bore and 1.8-2 thou on the bearings.

I know Tomei build big power engines in Japan with 2 thou on the mains, 1.8 on the big ends and 2 thou on the pistons. Most people would call that too small for a big power engine, but they do last...and you wouldn't even know it has forged pistons.

And you think that 20k is expensive for a decent engine? Try to buy the parts for it...a decent crank is 5 grand plus. Another 4 grand for a run of the mill nissan block, a couple of grand to get it sleeved. Add another 2.5g for decent yankee rods. Pistons and rings of any sort are $1500. Then you've got all the fastners and spacer plate.

Then you've got the machining costs and the labour to assemble it. And have you ever seen some of the Japanese assembly rooms? Climate controlled to 273K and 1 atm pressure. Absolutely spotless with assemblers in white coats. And then you say the clearances weren't spot on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

re: the os engine's clearances. i can't remember which thread i read it in. will see if i can dig it up... it might not've been clearances actually. but will find out. either way, it wasn't perfect and needed a lot of fixing up (supposedly).

and for that matter, i thought willall got AED to build their engines. might've been munro. one of the two. (god how off the pace am i today. can't remember anything clearly. too many shifts in a row...)

i don't know about you but $20k is a lot of money for me on an engine and i'd want it to be done 100% for that. i never doubted the VALUE for money in raw components, but that wasn't my point.

d

[SLY33]

hi guys, dont want to ruin the mood in here but if youd like to discuss RB30's or OS 3 litres, please start a specific thread,

thanks

[bfi.inc]

If you put an RB30 in a GTR with any big sort of power, see how long it takes to crack the block. An RB30 block wasn't desgned to have the load of a front diff hanging of the bottom of it. I know of a few people that have tried to run decent power with them and they don't last.

A bread and butter BNR32 05U block will handle 700-800PS any day.

And anyone that thinks that RB30s don't exist in Japan is kidding themselves. There are squillions of them, but they started life in forklifts / generators and earth moving equipment.

I reckon they are a good option in a rear drive skyline or maybe in a reasonable mild GTR...but not for any serious power.

And what you say about the Giken engine not having spot on clearances...what is spot on? Were they too big or too small? Bearing clearances or piston to bore? I reckon they would be set up with about 2 thou on the bore and 1.8-2 thou on the bearings.

I know Tomei build big power engines in Japan with 2 thou on the mains, 1.8 on the big ends and 2 thou on the pistons. Most people would call that too small for a big power engine, but they do last...and you wouldn't even know it has forged pistons.

And you think that 20k is expensive for a decent engine? Try to buy the parts for it...a decent crank is 5 grand plus. Another 4 grand for a run of the mill nissan block, a couple of grand to get it sleeved. Add another 2.5g for decent yankee rods. Pistons and rings of any sort are $1500. Then you've got all the fastners and spacer plate.

Then you've got the machining costs and the labour to assemble it. And have you ever seen some of the Japanese assembly rooms? Climate controlled to 273K and 1 atm pressure. Absolutely spotless with assemblers in white coats. And then you say the clearances weren't spot on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thankyou.In my comments,i restrained from openly criticising a workshop or actually naming them in regard to reworking an OS motor.I felt it important though to correct the "WILLALL " reworked the OS motor issue.A good example of why threads such as EG: "is this workshop any good" should be deleted immediately.Comments such as "i heard willalls had to rebuild OS motor" which are ill informed can have repurcussions on the named workshop.For instance,should i read that comment in ignorance,i may conclude that Peter Hall believes he knows more than OS GIKEN.Fortunately,i know that not to be true of Peterand Keir.In fact,when Keir levered open the crate,Peter ,keir and I were stunned at the metallurgy and workmanship of the OS motor.Peter Hall is a fastidious and talented engine builder who openly acknowledges the Japanese craftsman.

[Mik]

re: the os engine's clearances. i can't remember which thread i read it in. will see if i can dig it up... it might not've been clearances actually. but will find out. either way, it wasn't perfect and needed a lot of fixing up (supposedly).

and for that matter, i thought willall got AED to build their engines. might've been munro. one of the two. (god how off the pace am i today. can't remember anything clearly. too many shifts in a row...)

i don't know about you but $20k is a lot of money for me on an engine and i'd want it to be done 100% for that. i never doubted the VALUE for money in raw components, but that wasn't my point.

d

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

20k really isn't that much when you talk about big power. Ask someone who's built an 800hp 350 Chev how much it owes them.

Also, there are no right and wrong clearances...it all comes down to a comprimise and a judgment call.

[StageZilla]

20k aint much, its a very very good deal if u ask me, and the other jap stroker kits quickly add up, then u got labour as well.

then the extra pricey bit is getting all suitable bolt on extras which clock up the thousands of $$$ damn quick. (especially a gearbox to handle the 3L torque, unless u want auto)

Edited December 7, 2005 by StageZilla

[Sydneykid]

If you put an RB30 in a GTR with any big sort of power, see how long it takes to crack the block. An RB30 block wasn't desgned to have the load of a front diff hanging of the bottom of it. I know of a few people that have tried to run decent power with them and they don't last.

A bread and butter BNR32 05U block will handle 700-800PS any day.

I reckon they are a good option in a rear drive skyline or maybe in a reasonable mild GTR...but not for any serious power.

And what you say about the Giken engine not having spot on clearances...what is spot on? Were they too big or too small? Bearing clearances or piston to bore? I reckon they would be set up with about 2 thou on the bore and 1.8-2 thou on the bearings.

And you think that 20k is expensive for a decent engine? Try to buy the parts for it...a decent crank is 5 grand plus. Another 4 grand for a run of the mill nissan block, a couple of grand to get it sleeved. Add another 2.5g for decent yankee rods. Pistons and rings of any sort are $1500. Then you've got all the fastners and spacer plate.

Then you've got the machining costs and the labour to assemble it. And have you ever seen some of the Japanese assembly rooms? Climate controlled to 273K and 1 atm pressure. Absolutely spotless with assemblers in white coats. And then you say the clearances weren't spot on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My 20 cents, questions and suggestions;

1. What's "serious power"? 700 BHP, 800 BHP, 1000 BHP, 1200 BHP, More ?????

2. It's not a question of WHAT clearances, but CONSISTENT clearances, if OS decide 2/1000 is OK on the mains, then I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is is measuring #1 at 1.93, #2 at 2.04, #3 at 1.97 #4 at 1.96 #5 at 2.03 and #6 at 1.96. That's unacceptable.

3. What's a "reasonable mild GTR" ? Is it one with 250 rwkw, or 300 rwkw or 400 rwkw? A stock standard RB30 block will hold 750 bhp all day.

4. Have you seen the combo 4wd sump adaptor and main bearing support for an RB30? I have no doubt that it would easily hold up the 30 kgs that a 4wd sump and driveshafts weigh.

5. Have you actually cut up an RB30 block and compared it with an RB26 block? There is not as much difference as some people would have you believe.

6. Prices change every day, as more and more Skylines/RB's find their way to the US and the exclusive supply agreements with the Jap brand names run out. I can get an 86 mm forged crank for ~$US2,000, a 200 bhp capable conrod is ~$US110, forged pistons with rings are ~$120 each. It has gotten so a 1200 bhp RB30 botom end shouldn't cost more than ~$10K.

7. (As posted elsewhere) The OS 3 Litre has some advantages and some disadvantages, the most obvious advantage is it uses the N1 RB26 4wd block, arguably the best RB block casting to use in a high boost, high rpm environment.

Other than its exorbitant cost, the big disadvantage of the OS 3 litre is it poor stroke / rod length ratio (1.65 to 1). This is because OS used the RB26 (121.5mm) rod with the 86 mm stroker crank. That's why the block (with spacer) is only 18 mm taller than an RB26 and an RB30 is 38 mm taller. The RB30 rod length (152.5 mm) gives a much more favourable rod / stroke ratio of 1.79 to 1.

Personally, if I was building a high boost, high rpm, 3 litre, drag engine I would use an N1 block with a 38 mm spacer and 152.5 mm rods. That way I would get the advantages of both without the disadvantages. It would make more torque and rev just as hard with a forged crank, rods etc. Plus I reckon it would cost around half what an OS 3 litre costs.

8. The other RB's with 2.7 and 2.8 litre capacity suffer from similar issues. If they had better rod/stroke ratios they would produce more torque at lower rod, crank and block loadings. Or more torque at the same loadings.

There are many factors involved and it can't be simplified down to one block is better than another.

cheers

[Mik]

2. It's not a question of WHAT clearances, but CONSISTENT clearances, if OS decide 2/1000 is OK on the mains, then I have no problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is is measuring #1 at 1.93, #2 at 2.04, #3 at 1.97 #4 at 1.96 #5 at 2.03 and #6 at 1.96.  That's unacceptable.

Yep...that's very true. One problem though. The tolerences you are talking about are tiny.

One hundredth of a thousandth of an inch (0.000001") is 0.000254mm which is a quater of a 10 thousandth of a mm.

No one can measure to that tolerance with mechanical instruments.

Every race engine builder I have ever spoken too (including one that builds top fuel engines) would be more than happy with +/- 0.05 thou on a 2 thou clearance.

[knore]

Anyone have official prices on complete engines?

Whats the OS3L complete sell for?

I know the Tomei ones are 1.5-2.5 million yen depending on what stage and weather its the DERIVE or GENESIS series

Mines range from 1.3 to 1.9 million yen

Hard to find out EXACLY what they above includes too, the mines one looks like it includes turbos etc but its in japanese

www.mines-wave.com

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogu...compengine.html