Sydneykid

Only 6 posts, maybe not enough interest yet to justify their own section.

I have yet to find an accurate retard on a timing light, 2 to 3 degrees is not unusual.

Yep, that's the problem I found in the one (and only one) I have driven. It was a bit annoying in that R33 GTST. But in a Stagea, towing a trailer with an R32 GTST on it, it may well be terrible. I don't know. :confused: BTW abu, when your manual has done a 9, then you can sling off at R33 autos. Until then :wassup:

It's actually pretty simple, just bore the block to suite the liners, same as any RB26 liner, but longer. The trick is getting the deck height perfect, you have to fit the lower head gasket and then machine the liners down to match. You can't machine the spacer plate, so if the liners are too short you're screwed. The crank is just like fitting up any RB crank, standard bearing sizes. The one I helped with didn't have main bearing studs, but I think the current version might. The rods are not as long as RB30 rods (152.5 mm), I didn't measure them so I don't know exactly how much shorter they are. RB26 rods are 121.5 mm, so I suspect the OS ones are around 140 mm. This gives a less than ideal rod stroke ratio of 1.65, which is the same as an RB26, so it is logical. Personally I think the RB30 rod stroke ratio of 1.79 is superior. If I was doing my own conversion, I would go for the standard RB30 rod length and make the spacer thicker to allow for it. You could then use an RB30 crank and standard height RB30 liners. It would be about 1/5 the cost of an OS 3 litre. :aroused: The only draw back is the liners would be further out of the block, but that's what the spacer plate is for. That said the OS Giken 3 litres do the numbers and seem to last very well, if properly assembled of course.

If the system is sealed then it can't "drain", that said I never mount an oil filter high up in the engine bay, ditto oil cooler they are always mounted as low as I can get them.

Torque split controller, turn off the front diff:headbang:

Hi guys OS RB30 is simply an RB26 block, with cylinder liners that stick out of the top of the block. There is a spacer that goes around the liners to fill the space to the head. So you basically end up with 2 head gaskets, one between the spacer plate and the block and one between the head and the spacer plate. There are longer (than standard) head studs that thread into the block, go through the spacer plate and the head with nuts on top. They look like the standard ARP RB26 head studs only longer. For cam belt tension they have an adaptor plate that bolts to the RB26 block in the standard position. It has 2 adjustable tensioners that bolt to it and squeeze the belt close together. It is similar to the (optional) low mount tensioner that some guys use on the RB30 DET conversion. The belt itself is the same dimensions as the Dana one most people use. I have detailed pictures of one being assembled, but they are quite large. So I will put them up with the host later.

There seems to be a fair bit of interest in Stageas, I have received about 20 PM's and many emails about our new one. So I was wondering how much support there would be for a Stagea section on SkylinesAustralia. That way we could all exchange information, most of which would be Stagea unique. Wadyareckon?

Hi Jeremy, Bilsteins (and Konis) have circlip retainers for the lower spring mounts. They come with 2-3 standard circlip grooves but you can have as many as you want machined for next to nothing. By adjusting the circlip position you can raise or lower the car in increments (I use 5-8mm gaps between the grooves). The only thing is, you need to remove them from the car to do it. So, if you want to keep moving the height up and down, then adjustable lower spring platforms are better. But if you want to "set and forget", you can save a few hundred $. As for spring rates, it is really a personal choice. For a road car with upgraded stabiliser bars and adjusted suspension geometry, you don't need very hard springs for the car to handle well. The rates at 200 lb front 175 lb rear are perfect for that in a GTST. Because of the extra weight, around 250 lbs front and 200 lbs rear would be OK for a GTR. You really don't want (or need) to go much over 200 lbs in the rear of either a GTST or a GTR. A 350 lb rate in the front springs is about the max I would recommend for a road car. On the circuit race cars we very rarely run over 450 lbs in the front and 250 lbs in the rear. The most common is 400/200. Parrallel springs are both cheap (compared to the standard Skyline conicals) and readily available, so you can choose a rate and if it is not what you want, simply move up. We have them in 25 lb increments for the race cars. Hope that helps

Ho ho ho, you couldn't afford to pay them. Mechanics in Japan charge like brain surgeons. That's why everything has to be bolt on.

Hi Abu, the standard engine ECU "talks" to the gearbox ECU and (amongst other things) retards the ignition timing to smooth out the gearchanges. This also "unloads" the gearbox at the time of shifting, which lessens the torque shock on the auto. This extends its life considerably. The programming for this is quite complex as it has to account for gradients, as well as throttle position, gearchange point, engine rpm road speed etc. I suspect tha tthis is why Apexi don't make an auto PFC, they would have to charge a bomb to cover the cost of the programming t ocover the wide variety of power outputs. Noting that a standard ECU only has to account for standard power. I have a Stagea almost here and it's an auto, good for towing the race car. So can you (or anyone else) tell me how well the Wolf handles the gearchanges in the auto?

Hi guys, here is an example of 4 intercooler setups and pipework we have actually used; 1. R33 GTST Standard Intercooler and standard R32 GTST pipework 150 rwkw = 27 lbs of air per min @ 13 litres of i/c & pipework 2. Supra Intercooler and matching 63mm pipework 180 rwkw = 30 lbs of air per min @ 15 litres of i/c & pipework 3. Standard GTR GTR and 63/75mm pipework 250 rwkw = 40 lbs of air per min @ 21 litres of i/c & pipework 4. Greddy 600 X 300 X 115 and 80 mm pipework 400 rwkw = 60 lbs of air per min @ 28 litres of i/c & pipework If you look at the numbers you can see that the rate of air flow and the volume of I/C and pipework have a fixed relationship (27 = 13 , 30 = 15 , 40 = 21 , 60 = 28). This is not an accident, I designed it that way. The reason is I wanted to keep the throttle response as close what it was when the car had 150 rwkw, because I though that was very nice response. The theory I followed was, the more power the engine produces the more air it needs. Thus if I keep the increase in the volume of air inside the inlet system in the same proportion as the power increase, then the throttle response should stay the same. This is based on the engine using the air in the same time frame. So when people say they fitted a FMIC and have not noticed any less throttle response, my response would be, that is what I would expect. As long as they went from 150 rwkw to 180 rwkw. On the other hand, if there was no power increase then it would be simply physically impossible for there to be no decrease in throttle response. The problem of poor throttle response arrises when you have a 220 rwkw engine with a 28 litre inlet system. This is something I see way to often. Hope that adds to this interesting thread.

Not in my humble opinion.

Efficiencies, at ~70%

Many questions.... On ECU tuning, we spent 2 days tuning it. About 1/2 day on power and the other 1.5 days on driveablility. I don't know how to describe it other than "so it runs nice". It is driven every day so it has to start every time, hot, cold, wet, dry. It has to run in city traffic or on the freeway at low load and high A/F ratios. The air con and power steering have to work without any distress from the engine. All the stuff that you would expect from a standard car, that's what I demand from one with double the standard power. Boost is 1.3 bar, all day every day. I am not a believer in multiple boost settings. I am not a believer in lowering the compression ratio, I prefer to get the power without simply "turning up the boost". Lowering the compression ratio hurts the response, so I don't do it. With the technology we have available, tuning equipment and the fuel, it is simply no longer necessary. The car below runs 9.5 to 1 compression ratio and makes over 1,000 bhp. The Gibson GTR's made 625 bhp on 9.3 to 1 at 1.9 bar, and that was 10 years ago. An Australian price list would be prety much useless to you, since I did all the work myself, and labour is the expensive part. From what I remember following are the costs; GCG Ball Bearing hi flow of the std RB25DET turbo $1800 (it was 2 years ago) Standard R33 GTR Intercooler $600 Alloy pipework 63 mm from the turbo to the intercooler and 75 mm from the intercooler to the standarrd throttle body(and inlet manifold). It uses a 120 degree bend at the throttle body $400 HKS BOV (plumb back) $80 Alloy pipework from AFM to turbo (it kept sucking the standard one closed) $40 Power FC with boost controller $1200 (we use a Datalogit for tuning $400) POD with CAI and heat shielding $80 Tomei 256 Poncams $1200 Sard 550 cc Injectors $800 Bosch 044 in tank fuel pump $400 Split dump pipe with 3.5" hi flow cat and exhaust $1400 The exhauts is heat wrapped from the turbo to the cat $80 Electric fan $50 OS Giken twin plate clutch $1300 Total ~$10K, sounds about right. Engine bay pics would be a waste of time, it looks standard, the POD is in a black box, the manifolds are standard, the cam covers are standard. The only thing that isn't standard looking is the intercooler pipework. The power is on the inside, not the outside. PM me your email address and I can send you a photo or 2. Hope that helps

Yep Merli I understand what you are saying, but I believe the reverse is more applicable here. If it's not a race car, then don't match the gear ratios to the engine, match the engine to the gear ratios. So many people pick an engine spec that simply does not align with the rest of the car and then they are dissappointed with the results. Hence you have cars that SHOULD run 11's, ACTUALLY running 13's. Maybe they would be better off spending less money in total, but with an engine spec that matched the rest of the car and running 12's. My own car has a standard RB25DET gearbox with its standard ratios, a standard R32 GTST diff ratio and runs 17 X 8 wheels with 245/45/17's. So I chose an engine spec that suites those ratios. I could have easily built an engine with 150 bhp more max power, but the average power would have been screwed and it would in fact be slower. :bonk: So getting back to the topic of this thread, it is important to choose a turbo spec that matches what you want to achieve (road, race or drag) and what the rest of the car is going to be. I happen to like the ball bearing hi flow spec (as supplied by GCG) for a combo car (lots of road, few circuit and some drag), it matches the rest of the car nicely. There are few others around, I recently tried a car with an AVO supplied turbo and it felt just as good. Knowing what you want and matching the whole package is the trick, it separates the cars that SHOULD, from the the cars that DO.

Hi Merli, I agree but with a slight clarification I finished a 20 minute race last weekend and the car never had less than 4,500 rpm on it for the whole race according to the data log. What I want is the highest average power from that 4,500 rpm to the shift point, which in my case is 8,000 rpm. I don't really care what the power band is like under 4,000 rpm, I allow the extra 500 rpm for when I get baulked in the corners by a slower car. If I have to sacrifice 50 bhp at 3,000 rpm to pick up 25 bhp at 7,000 rpm then I would do it every time. But only as long as the average power (from 4,500 to 8,000 rpm) didn't suffer as a result. With a close ratio gearset I could narrow that down, eg; the RX7 has a close ratio Guru dog box and it never gets below 7,000 rpm with a 9,500 rpm shift point. The Primera SuperTourer is even closer, its l;ike 6,500 rpm to 8,000 rpm with its 6 speed, close ratio, sequential dog box (Xtrac). :wassup: Its all about matching the power band to the gearbox and diff ratios, or vice versa.

Hi rocky, I like the GCG ball bearing hi flow of the RB25DET turbo, do a search there are heaps of threads on this subject.

Hi Wilch, an Autospeed style boost controller (Norgren valve based) for $100 and a Power FC ($900) would be my next choice, nothing else will give the same result (+30 rwkw). You are going to need it soon anyway to get rid of the over boost protection, 180 kph speed limit, rich A/F ratios and retarded timing and all the other things that stop the other mods making the power that they can. My 20 cents worth, hope it helps

Hi Wolverine, we run 4 air temperature sensors when testing; one ambient, located in front of the intercooler one air inlet, located at the air filter one turbo outlet, located between the turbo and the intercooler one engine inlet, located just before the throttle body Thermo couples fit between the silicone hose & clamps and the alloy pipework. Intercooler efficiency is expressed as a percentage, which I calculate this way........... intercooler inlet temperature (say 50) minus the intercooler outlet air temperature (say 30) divided by the intercooler inlet temperature (say 50) minus the ambient temperature (say 25) Thus (50-30)/(50-25) = 80% We commonly see numbers in the 70's this is the air temp sensor we use http://www.autospeed.com/A_0807/cms/article.html Hope that helps

Hi R334door, I have re read this thread a couple of times and I see no reference to the A/F ratios. If you have them, can you post the power graph with A/F ratios and boost. The Microtech has air temp correction, which I assume is being used, if so a graph of that will be handly as well. That will help the diagnosis a lot. What model of Microtech is it? Are you running wasted spark? Have you paired up the injectors (ie; using 3 injector drivers)? I have never run a Skyline on anything other than 98 ron, it simply isn't worth it. Since you have a "free fuel" advantage, I would suggest a 20% mix of toluene (I use 10 litres of toluene with 40 litres of fuel). Don't get it on your hands or inhale it, it's not nice. One tank full and $50 on the dyno with the items above logged will eliminate many things. Hope that helps

Standard R32/33 GTR intercoolers are hard to beat up to ~300 rwkw , do a search there are plenty of threads on intercoolers.

Steve at SST in Perth is a Wolf guru, I am sure if you PM him he will be able to answer all your questions.

I haven't busted a GTST box yet (he said crossing fingers). So until I do, I am not stressing over it. When one of them lets go, I will buy a Pfitzner straight cut, dog engagement, close ratio, 5 speed gear set and stick that in. I haven't had any success in the past with "hardening up" gear sets, I reckon if they are too small, then they are TOO SMALL. Those RB25DET gearboxes are so heavy and a bugger to get out of an R32 with a RB31DET hanging onto the front of them, I only want to do it once. :wassup: Gotta go, calling the US to chase up some missing pistons........... :flamed:

OK Wilso, thanks for filling in the gaps. You have probably read the posts about 450 bhp form RB25's being OK on standard RB25 internals. We have built 3 and after 20 months the first is still going strong, very low leak down, no oil comsumption and the same power as when it was built. So you don't have to open the engine up to achieve your target of 400 bhp. This is my favourite RB25DET spec for a combo car, gets driven every day in city traffic, rain, hail or shine, does 4 or 5 ciruit events per year and a few trips down the 1/4 (11.9 at 120 mph). GCG Ball Bearing hi flow of the standard RB25DET turbo Standard R33 GTR Intercooler Alloy pipework 63 mm from the turbo to the intercooler and 75 mm from the intercooler to the standarrd throttle body (and inlet manifold) HKS BOV (plumb back) Alloy pipework from AFM to turbo (it kept sucking the standard one closed) Power FC with boost controller (we use a Datalogit for tuning) POD with CAI and heat shielding Tomei 256 Poncams Sard 550 cc Injectors Bosch 044 in tank fuel pump Split dump pipe with 3.5" hi flow cat and exhaust Electric fan OS Giken twin plate clutch The engine has not been opened and makes 265 rwkw (355 rwhp) on our Dyno Dynamics roller dyno, that's around 435 bhp (at the engine). I have driven (and own) Skylines with more power (in some cases much more) but this is the best all round 2wd for my requirements. The GTR, being 4wd, can handle a bit more power and still be liveable under all conditions. Hope that helps