XRATED

An intercooler is a very basic air to air heat exchanger. The ARC cooler is superior to the factory design in a couple of areas: Less restrictive flow path and less pressure drop More effective and efficient at cooling the intake charge Same or better flow through of outside air through the cooler... this helps to keep the radiator (water to air heat exchanger) cooler. Honestly, unless the car is a heavily used on the track, your stock cooler should be fine... if you live somwhere hot, then invest in a cooler spray kit. I don't know of any off the shelf spray kits for intercoolers, but it's the kind of thing you can do yourself with a couple of garden nozzles and a spare windscreen washer bottle- OR use the rear washer motor in your existing washer bottle (who uses the rear washer anyway??) Just need to get a little creative. J.

Nice one hoss...

Maybe have a look for an R34GTR cooler, they seem to be a little more efficient... they have a handy little fitting for an air temp sensor too.. The ultimate set up for -5's and circut work is the ARC twin entry 70mm cooler. I believe the Hi Octane 34 runs one too. Around 1700 USD Or you could run a water spray kit to keep the intake temps down. Cheers Justin

Nope... a correctly mounted intank pump will surge bellow 1/3 of a tank... that's why people go to surge tanks...

A 15 psi carter pump is right on the money... it's a better choise than a high pressure efi pump, but will be a little more difficult to fitt, that's why I suggested a bosch pump... with a bosch pump, you can re-use the modified fuel pump cradle from the in tank 044... 2lt should be fine, just make shure it's relativly skinny and tall- with the right size threaded fittings. Have a search around the forum, i'm shure there are plenty of examples for plumbing and wiring... if not pm me and I'll sketch somthing up for you. EFI hardware will have everything you need... Good prices and solid advice. At the end of the day you have to trust in what your tuner/builder tells you... If he says two pumps and a surge tank, then thats what you invest in. Personally I would ask your tuner if one larger pump will suffice with a surge tank... I don't think he would have an issue with that, as long as the one pump is rated the same as two 044's... Again, this is just my preffrence (I've given my reasons in this thread allready). See what he says. It also comes down to cost too... two 044's will probably be cheaper. Cheers Justin

Flow rate the may not be the issue... You don't really need to bleed that much volume of air off to maintain constant boost pressure. Which valve has the greatest capacity for duty cycle? eg open and close the fastest? Cheers Justin

Nope... dog box baby- It's so easy to drive my GF drives it to the shops... It's only the R3C she has a little truble with... ha ha ha Hell she drives it harder on the street than I do! J.

yes you can, it's been done plenty of time before... why on earth would you want to? for the fully sick wickid hecktic screamer sound? your not going to gain much in the way of hp, it's dangerous and it's completly illegal. J.

You can use it... It's just WAY too big and may cause heating and vapor locks. If you hook up the origional wiring to the 044 it will slow it down at low demand (factory speed control), so it'll help a little. You could also run a FPR on the return line on the surge tank to keep it pressurised (say 10psi) this will also slow the pump down a little. Aeromotive sell a good DC speed controller/PWM (Pulse Width Modulator)... It uses an rpm signal or AFM signal to ramp the pump up as required. It just means the pump's not pushing max flow ALL the time... you certainly don't use max hp all the time on the street. I would find a good condition stock pump or one of the lower rated bosch motorsport pumps (040 is still too big)- remember pumps are flow rated at a particular pressure... at 0psi pressure a pump will normally flow double or tripple it's rated flow. Use the standard wiring (as there is factory speed controll) for the lift pump. Call Steve at EFI hardware for any parts you need. Then use your current 044 as the external main feed pump. Make shure you use a good mount as they can be noisy. Also run a good size power feed cable, earth cable and realy to ensure you get maximum voltage/amperate to the pump. Stock fuel lines should be fine for you application... If you need to buy a FPR get one with the largest return port possible... It helps keep the fuel a little cooler. Ensure you use a pickup screen or sock on the lift pump, use a large 100mic filter before the main pump and a large 10mic filter before the fuel rail.... Cheers Justin

Sweet... I'm on the other side of the world (working in Bahammas right now) so I'll get my distributor on it. Thanks for the info guys... Justin

Thanks for the info guys... keep it comming on the big valve. Cheers J.

Your pretty close. A reduced fitting/appature will only cause a restriction if it's flow rate at a given pressure is exeeded. Eg if a pump with a -10 outlet fitting flows 100pgm at 50psi is reduced down to -8 AND the -8 fitting can flow 100gpm at 50 psi there will be little or no restriction.... Why on earth would you reduce a pump down? What's with the reducer qustions/comments? "Pretty sure -10 reducing down to -8 is different to two -6 lines into an -8 as it actually isn't reduced"... not if it's the same flow rate at the same pressure. You actually got it right above. "The flow will be dictated by how much the lower size line" It all ends up in a -8 line, so the -8 line is the restiction... ha ah h a We're going round in circles and I'm not explaining this very well. At the end of the day, pick the correct size line for the flow rate and delivery pressure your trying to flow. Simple as that. Ask the hydralic guys for the formula... they use it everyday. I'm not 'against' multiple pumps... I just prefer a single pump, for the reasons I've already stated. Cheers Justin

I did ALOT of reaserch and ALOT of calculations before I had a set of tb's modded. If you dont have the propper head work and plenum volume mods... you will more than likely go backwards. Or best case not gain anything except a bill from EFI Hardware. Not to mention that you have to permanently modifly your injector/joining manifold and plenum runners to suit... so add another $300 for machine work and $500 for a new plenum, tb's and joining manifold when/if it dosen't work.... I recently had a conversation with a Jenvey rep... they seriously looked at producing an rb26 itb set up and manifold. They couldn't gain much anywhere in the power range OR in response/progression whith they're designs and throttle bodies.... They modelled everything on a simulation program- so nothing was actually built. The only gains they did get was with particular flow rates, with particular variables and a slight increase in tb diameter (49mm). For those who don't know who Jenvey are google it- they're one of the best multiple tb designers/manufactures in the world. The money is better spent somwhere else... Like nitrous ah ah ah. Cheers Justin

Throw some nitrous on it.... ha ha ha ha

... ha ha ha no worries mate. As posted previously, I have a two piece Greddy RB26 plenum. There are a few 'secret' and not so secret tricks to get tb's to seal... most are well covered in the forum. There should be some gains... well I hope so! But more top end is not my goal. J.

I agree that the last pump that you posted would work better since you can go -8 then to twin -6 into a dual feed rail. This way there will not be a pressure build up at the reducers (as there isn't any to become a bottleneck). I am pretty sure my fluid dynamics wasn't off since its common knowledge that you can only flow as much as the smallest section of pipe/line will allow. It is also a well known fact that pumps will wear out faster trying to push the same flow over a smaller pipe. The "fluid dynamics" your using is not based on your knowledge/understanding/calculations using fluid dynamic mathmatics... Your using common knowledge and appling it to this situation- I'm not saying your wrong, but I doubt you sat down and worked through the mathmatics. I have a reasonable good working knowledge of fluid mechanics/dynamics as I am a large yacht engineer- As for the sizing in combination with the orientation since it isn't inline, by the time fittings are attached, the unit can become relative fat and I am not too sure where it will fit in an external setup. This wouldn't be a problem in the boot though. One 044 is roughly 7x2.5 inches? add brackets and you mount two together, then add end fittings +2 inches, you get 8x6 inches roughly.... do yo agree? One weldon 2032 is 7.7x3.45 inches... then add fittings to each side +2 inches- you end up with 7.7x5.45.... effectivly the same package size if not smaller........ how do you not see that? If you still don't have engough space, then go for an aeromotive eliminator pump... they're somthing like 7x3 inches... Pretty sure -10 reducing down to -8 is different to two -6 lines into an -8 as it actually isn't reduced. A better choice would be to set up each 044 pump with -6 lines feeding directly into each end of the fuel rail. There is no bottleneck on the feed side as nothing in the fuel system is smaller then the outlet size of the 044. This statment shows your lack of knowledge or understanding of "fluid dynamics" as you say... If 100gpm from one pump gets pushed into a -8 line it will flow exactily the same as if 100gpm was pushed into the same -8 line at the same pressure... 100gpm is 100gpm reguardless of the the number of pumps delivering it. There are many ways to set up a fuel system... I have done a few... Not just in high performace vehicles either (applications from 1500hp to 12000hp), thus I try and help people with they're choices on this forum. Running two -6 from two 044's is a reasonable way to go, but like any set up there are comprimises, pros and cons... eg, if one pump fails- 1/2 your rail will lean out much quicker than the other- you also need twice as much fuel line and twice as many filters... The two occasions where your own single setup of 044 ran at around 400kw + nitrous, did you upgrade the fuel rail? stock fuel line? were you maxing them out with the addition of nitrous oxide as it allow the engine to burn more fuel and air? Was it tuned for the effects of the nitrous shot? I ran a 1/2" fuel delivery line, stock return line and an upgraded fuel rail (one feed one return)- fuel line dosn't have much to do with anything though??? When you say "them' what are you reffering to? The pump was close it it's max flow rate, with a 10% buffer with the nitrous. I'm not going to explain how nitrous works, I'd suggest you do some reaserch. Yes my timing map was optimised to make full use of the nitrous safely, what dose that have to do with fuel delivery? Example 2 didn't have knock control or pressure drop ignition cut in the ecu just some gauges and warning light hence the driver was able to run it for a few seconds in that situation. 90% of tuned cars out there don't have knock compensation maps or an ignition cut for low fuel pressure... I don't think you actually understand how these would work... it's not as simple as a hobbs pressure switch and relay. Example 3 sounds a bit odd, wouldn't one of the first things to check when you drop fuel pressure is the actual pump? The failing pump still worked under low load conditions, it still pumped- there were no dips or spikes in fuel pressure untill peak hp- there were no abnormal signs of fuel pressure or fuel delivery under all other conditions. The only reason we diagnosed one pump as faulty is we pressure-flow tested each pump on a test rig to find out if the two pumps delivered what they were rated at... one ended up weaker than the other and the controll pump ( a brand new out of the box pump we used as a benchmark)... we basically found it by accident. 1. I don't need to save money on fuel system components - I agree, not sure about 900+ vs 400 though since a single 044 will support 600HP+ which is more than enough for most track cars so doubling isn't a bad idea for a peace of mind? Either do I... but the most common reason people choose two 044's over a single larger pump is it's cheaper. I can't see any other reason why you would go to the extra complexity? 2. Less components= Less things to fail - I agree to a certain degree, case in point, push rod vs overhead cams. Although there are quite a few good pushrod engines out there. I've never said it's a bad idea or it's wrong to run multiple pumps... My preffrence is to run one pump... 3. Simpler to operate and control - Just let the fuel pump controller control the relays which feeds the +12Vdc straight from the battery. If you are worried about the temperature, add a cooler as they are only 100+ ??? Fuel pump controllers don't operate realays... they are PWM's. Fuel coolers add a whole new dimention- I'm not going to get into it, but I think they're a last resort... if they rupture, it's very dangerous. 4. Easier to install and package - I guess tightening a few extra fittings and one line shouldn't be too hard? Most surge tanks that are available are suited to the two pump set up so packaging isn't an issue here I think. Are you going to argue evey point??? If you feel you need two pumps and two lines... be my guest. Just make shure you add a 100mic filter before each pump and a 40 mic (for e85) or 10mic (normal fuel) after. 5. Less fittings and thus less points of failure/leaks - same thing as number 2, just different wording. I doubt that anyone would not run an Oil cooler/filter relocation set up just because of this less fittings also equals less cost, if I didn't have to run an oil cooler, I wouldn't... but lower oil temps out weighs the possible leaks... all oil cooler are designed with a minumum of fittings too... also oil wont ignite quite as easily as vaporised gasoline, so it's less of an issue. 6. The one pump is of better quality than multiple cheaper pumps - this is one area that I am not too sure about as the 044 is "used by Japanese European & Australian tuner shops, JGTC cars, Touring cars, almost all WRC cars, and many more. Quite possibly, the most popular aftermarket fuel pump" In addition, I tend to think german stuff is better than American in most cases, especially automotive related. A lot of german road cars also uses bosch fuel pumps so maybe the quality is there? I would pitt a $1400 weldon (leaded bronze and tool steel internals) up against an off the shelf 044 anyday for reliability... I don't even know if 044 pumps are made in germany? do you? I keep saying this... I'M NOT SAYING 044'S ARE BAD OR WRONG. They are popular all around the world. You can't compare the a race teams use of equipment to an average tuner/racer's use... How many races do you think each pump will do? Not many- nothing is used more than a few races... especially cheap items like fuel pumps. 7. Quicker to diagnose a problem with the fuel delivery - check the fuel pump and other fuel line components when the fuel pressure drop. Not sure what to do if you can't visibly find any faults? change the pumps. Use knock control and pressure drop ignition cut in the ecu to prevent damage. If the one pump fails.. it fails.... whatever method you use to diagnose a fault the proceedure is simplified... fact. Usually a single failing fump will show it's self on the dyno or at the track well before you get to peak torque/hp as compared to two pumps in paralell. All the sensors, cut outs, guages, telapathy in the world is all good... it has nothing to do with fuel delivery reliability and arn't guarantee to save a motor. Best cure is prevention... You can't trust a 20k motor to a "back up plan" warings and cut outs. btw, I am just asking questions and voicing some concerns to get a better understanding, not taking a pot shot at you or anything. My apologies if you were offended but there is no need to call me a little boy. Your making some loose statments that are not based on your own experience, reaserch, testing or matmatics... I don't mind giving my opinion or advice to those who listen and are interested in learning... you just seem hell bent on arguing every point? I have posted up my advice, based on experience... you don't have to follow it. I'm not a professional race car fuel system engineer, but have been building skylines circa '96 and am a qualified superyacht engineer. I'm not offended, just confused by some of your questions and comments... At the end of the day none of these 5 page amounts to s@it... it's an open internet forum and you can't trust anything anyone says. ha ha ha ASK YOUR TUNER/BUILDER/MECHANIC FOR ADVICE. Little buddy is not 'little boy', it's a kind term used, loosely translated to 'smaller or younger friend'... If I were you, I'd hit the books and start studying, calling people who you can trust for advice and learing as much as you can about the things we have disscused in this thread.

Best box.... hollinger/OS 88 Good box for the money- PPG Helical set... I have one, it's brilliant. J.

How keen are you? http://www.burnsstainless.com/straighttubing-3.aspx Cheers J.

Nice R&D.... great mod... simple and effective- cheap too ha ha ha.

Answers are: It will work, but it will flow way to much fuel contantly. Put a stock pump back in with the factory speed control. I used to run a single 044 using 98 and made just shy of 400rwkw + a 50hp shot of nitrous (was a wet system, so it draws from the 044 aswell)in my gtr. Shure.. but bigger the better. You can get away with the stock fuel lines, although I ran a 1/2" line just to maximise the 044's flow potential. If it's a street car, I'd also look at a fuel pump speed controller. J.

Oh and if your considering this, you won't really see any benifit unless you have a well flowing head or much larger capaicty behind them... Also a larger plenum is required to get the best from them- the stock 26 plenum is to small. J.

Thanks for all the replies guys... I completely forgot about this thread.. ah ah ha I ended up getting EFI hardware to bore my tb's out to 48mm. They sent them back to me a couple of weeks ago- they look great. I don't forsee any idle problems.. The tb's have been machined to a much tighter tolerance than factory and hand finished. I also sent them some re-designed shaft seals that won't pop out under boost and leak. If you have stock shaft seals- they WILL leak under boost. If there is a problem with sealing, I'll send them back... I have plenty of little tricks to be employed to get a good seal too... Really it's not an issue. It's a bit silly to say that "Garunteed the ported throttle bodies are a bitch to seal and have all sorts of idle issues" And no I'm not chasing 1000kw.. thats silly. I'm not going into why I went with enlarged tb's as it would take all day to explain, let's just say I did some calculations, taking into consideration the projected airflow, cams, runner length and volume, plennum volume (greddy intake manifold), port size/volume, valve size, lift and engine capacity... The bigger tb's will provide some gains. For those who have had they're tb's bored out, what gaskets or gasket material are you using? Has anyone made a phenolic gasket yet? Cheers Justin

... If your fuel cell has suitable baffles or if the foam slows the movement of the fuel enough, then you won't need a surge tank- reguardeless of what pump you run. If you do need a surge tank- run high volume low pressure pump to the surge tank, then draw from the surge tank. Weldon pumps are expensive... but so is an engine re-build. J.

Hey Mike, surge is caused by the pick up to the fuel pump/s sucking air instead of fuel- creating air and vapor locks. I dosn't matter if you use one or one hundred pumps, the pump has no effect on surge. If you use two pickups and one pick up sucks air- you will get surge... reguardless if the two pickups go to one pump or two. As I understand it (I've never installed a foam filled fuel cell) a foam filled fuel cell will prevent the fuel from moving laterally to quickly. If it prevents the quick motion of fuel in any direction, then you will not need a surge tank. However if you half fill the cell and shake it from side to side and notice that the fuel sloshes quickly from one side to the other, then you will need a surge tank. The best place for a pick up is at the back, in the center at the lowest point. I'd stick with one pickup in the center. Also make shure you put a 40 mic filter before any pump you install... I see alot of fuel systems without filters. You'll just wreck the pump. Hope that helps Justin

From what I have read, E85 wont store heat energy like 98 will... Also E85 combustion temps are cooler... Thus engine running temps are generally cooler. Wich all adds up to cooler circulating fuel. Cheers Justin