HPC Coating or Thermal Strapping?

[Al]

Throughout this year i am slowly buying parts to acheive 300+rwkw's.

In an attempt to keep under bonnet temps down i am going to hpc coat or thermanl strap the following parts b4 putting them on the car; Ex. Manifold, IC piping, Plenum, Ex. housing of turbo, Front/Dump pipe.

Questions:

1/ Which product is better, hpc coating or thermal straps/covers , and is it worth it to use both?

2/ Any do's and don'ts?

3/ Anything else that i could coat/strap/cover?

4/ Recommendations of certain products/brands and w/shops to do the coating/straps?

5/ Anything else i forgot to ask?

All advise would be greatly appreciated and considered

THANKS in advance

AL

[GTS-t VSPEC]

I think that ceramic coating is the best option, but unless your into serious track use then the thermal strapping is fine. Yes they do work well together, and will provide optimum heat sheilding. I would also suggest a vented bonnet if you do not have one, as they will remove the hot air quite effectively.

See'ya:burnout:

[Al]

Does a vented bonnet allow water into the engine bay when it rains and if so will this affect any electrics and start corrosion of parts?

[GTS-t VSPEC]

In general most rain won't get in if they are a racing style vented bonnet, plus the engine is so hot that any water quickly evaporates. I prefer to have to bonnets, on for racing and one for the street. Cops will hassel you if you have a vented bonnet.

See'ya:burnout:

[adam 32]

paul, u know where i can buy thermal tape in perth? cos while the cars in bits im gunah wrap some parts (IC piping off the turbo and a few other bits n pieces) thanks!

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Yeah, there are a few places that you can get it. It varies in cost quite dramatically. I also know someone who does ceramic coating in Perth, that stuff is awesome but it's not cheap. Call me and I'll tell you where you can get it, or I'll organise to get some for you.

See'ya:burnout:

[R33NT]

Are you mad??

HPC coating all the way. I am up here in the territory and i am forced to use strapping. If i where south and someone in my city could do ceramic thermal coating (HPC) i would pull my car to peices and do the

1) Intercooler pipes.

2) Turbo (exhaust side)

3) Exhaust manifold

4) Intake manifold.

etc

If you want to go even further you can use a special thermal insulating spacer block between your intake manifold and the head.

At the moment if i go for a drive after about 10minutes my engine heatsoaks and it starts to detonate. I am going around to a mates workshop with some thermal tape i have bought to wrap it today.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Your detonation is due to poor tuning and not compensating for air temperature. HPC coating is alot more expensive and is not necessary for a road car, just for track use. Using both is the best idea.

See'ya:burnout:

[Steve]

Originally posted by GTS-t VSPEC

Your detonation is due to poor tuning and not compensating for air temperature. HPC coating is alot more expensive and is not necessary for a road car, just for track use. Using both is the best idea.

See'ya:burnout:

I'm with GTS-t VSPEC, have you checked your timing lately?

[MRK25T]

Everyone says HPC is expensive but i've never seen any quotes for it.

What sort of money would a place be asking for do to the parts Al mentioned:

Ex. Manifold, IC piping, Plenum, Ex. housing of turbo, Front/Dump pipe.

Has anyone ever got a quote for and HPC coating?

Mark

[dojobi]

I don't know the separate amount for the coating, but I bought a 3" single piece dump/front pipe with a separate wastegate line (so a fair bit of work went into it) for $400 including having the whole thing HPC coated. So it can't be that expensive. I'd love to get my FMIC pipes done cos the wrapping looks like shit.

[sidewaymambo]

anyone know where can do HPC in Sydney?

[Xeron]

Well im not sure if the exhaust manifold on the rb engines is alloy, cast or what, but if its aint alloy, i'd get it coated in ceramic. The reason, heat wrapping increases rust, ceramic reduces it. This is more of an issue with cheap headers, but still.

[Al]

If you want to go even further you can use a special thermal insulating spacer block between your intake manifold and the head.

R33NT

I have read about this somewhere, is there such a spacer for the R33? If so who sells it and how much does it cost?

[R33NT]

Guys i can go for a drive 20mins (no detectable detonation), park the car go into the shops for 10 mins, then get back in it and immediately when i hit boost it pings now are you seriously going to try and convince me that my Apexi PowerFC has changed maps in that time and it isnt Heat Soak which i can feel when i lift the bonnet and i can barely touch the intake pipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Xeron i dont know if you talking to me but i probably should clarify that it is the top section of the dump pipe that i am wrapping with thermal tape. ie from the outlet of the turbo to the bend where it goes parallel with the ground.

Al i read it on autospeed.

http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_0401/cms/article.html

[Steve]

R33NT, I had a similar problem after fitting a custom dump and had the heat shielding removed from the turbo. Underbonnet temps skyrocketed once the car was warm, even on cold days.

I then heat wrapped the dump and still had detonation problems. When I got the car on the dyno they pulled a bit of timing and tweaked the AF ratios, now no detonation even on 40deg+ days, and a much more responsive car to drive.

I know what you mean about the intake pipe, the temp increase will not (from the research I have done) effect the intake temp as the air moves through the piping too quickly to be sufficiently heated to cause detonation. You may get some effect if you are idling for a while, but once you move off, this will quickly disappear - If you are running a good FMIC. Perhaps it would be worth putting the car on dyno during a hot day? Also if you dont already have one, a cold air partion works wonders IMHO.

Failing that, you can get ceramic coating done in Adeliade, why not send you pipework down there? I am pretty sure ceramic coating in Adelaide is charged by the job for things like dump pipes and manifolds so you could do both at once, HPC on the other had I am pretty sure charge by the inch?

Can anyone verify this???

Steve

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Most of the quotes I've had for HPC are around $600 for an exhaust manifold, and yes most places even the ceramic coaters in Perth charge by the length.

R33NT, We are not trying to have a go but we know from experience that most of your problem is tuning related, in order to maximise power on a dyno the A/F ratios are lean, but in real driving then this may lead to the detonation you experience. Is the Power FC capable of air temp compensation, if so get a sensor and compensate fuel loads versus the intake air temp.

See'ya:burnout:

[rev210]

Ok.

I have used thermal wrap for sometime and here is what I have found out.

* Thermal wrap will sheild more heat than ceramic coat.It's cheaper to buy into.

* Doing both is a great idea, from a long lasting 'wear' perspective. The coating will protect from increased corrosion and thermal fatigue. It's expensive tho'.

* The main benifit of thermal insulation comes with the increased engery/speed (due to trapped heat) of the exhaust or hot side of the intercooler piping. The underbonnet temp reduction is of secondary importance, but good none the less.

* When doing the thermal wrap -- clean & prepare the surface and paint it with silicone hitemp stuff. Cure the paint properly. Wrap evenly. re-apply a finishing coat of paint over the wrap.

DEI is the most user friendly (revolution race gear do this stuff) it has a nice marking on each side for easy and even wrapping. Done right the thermal wrap and your exahust pipe will last a long time (even thin stainless). Done wrong and the pipe will crack and corrode within 18months.

[Warpspeed]

I can understand how say a used cast iron exhaust manifold can be sand blasted and chemically cleaned inside and out prior to putting on the magic ceramic HPC coating.

But what about a slightly used dump pipe or extractors ? How can they remove the black crap from inside a long twisty pipe ?

I would assume only shiny new pipework can be internally coated with this stuff.

The reason I ask, is that you might want to test several experimental exhaust systems on the dyno. Then when its all sorted out, get that system treated. But it will be full of black crap after testing.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

As far as I know they treat the pipes by baking them in a kiln, it causes any combustable material and carbon build-up to be removed, then a acid bath to remove anything else. There was an article in Zoom that went through this process in full.

See'ya:burnout: