Insurance Claim Dilemma

[justin911]

i dont think you can do anything realy except pay.

if he's gone though his insurance he would of had the assesor check out his car/quote, and the assesor would of tried to do it as cheap as possible incase they have to pay for it..

someone crashed into me a few months ago.. and thats how my insurance r trying to do it atm

[MANWHOR3]

Sadly, its situations like this where you need your insurer to be there to back you up.

Any time you have an accident, report it to the police as there are too many people out there that will try and screw for all your worth even if you only scratch their car.

yeah, but then the cops will just come over and give you a $300 fine and 3 dem points for neg driving too.

[scathing]

Also, I'd like to add, that people always go, oh, there's some issue, LEGAL ADVISE. like it's a magic solution.

Better to get legal advice then asking some random keyboard warrior on the Internet. There might be a legal loophole to use. Why is it any better to ask on an Internet forum than from someone qualified to give an opinion, and who can be held liable should that opinion be proved incorrect?

If they were to go to court, given the admissions so far you could argue that the amount of damage to the car is not reasonable for the accident caused. And so you shouldn't be liable for the entire charge, just a portion of it.

Unfortunately, that means you'd possibly need to get a hold of the person the BMW was pushed into.

With the right expert witnesses (crash investigators), it could be argued that the damage done to the first car could not have caused that much front end damage to the BMW. Yes it will cost more, but if you go over the itemised repair bill you can question if what the girlfriend did would break certain parts.

Otherwise, the damage is there and needed to be repaired. Without proof that you couldn't have caused it, you'll be screwed.

But, you'd well behind the 8 ball on this one. The lawyer will probably tell you that even if you did win (a long shot in itself) it would cost you more in the end than just swallowing it and paying up. But then, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know for sure.

[luminorex]

first of all, i want thank everyones input and advice on this one. needless to say lesson learnt for never drive without insurance.

the reason for seeking advice on this board is to see if per chance(but god forbid) anyone had a similar experience who could share the outcome so i can set my mind right. instead of spending the extra money for legal advice and trying to avoid the unavoidable.

common sense tells me that we are liable for all costs of the bmw's repairs (both front and rear), its just a little hard to accept the 12k repair bill measuring against the relatively small damage to my car. however just as some of you said bmws are expensive to repair. then again its not a particularly new bmw been a 97 318i (the most popular model) i would think they are plenty of secondhand parts around. but i never know for sure.

im inclined to just go for a consultation so that i know ive tried.

Edited November 30, 2006 by luminorex

[luminorex]

I'm a little slow at times, so can you explain something for me?

fixed.

[sl33ek]

Try and argue it, 12K is much too excessive and someone taking advantage. The repairer made mint from this and the BMW driver got practically a new car. Keep in mind a 97 BMW 318i is only worth around 15K so wouldn't a 12K repair bill mean its a write off?

[Amaru]

then again its not a particularly new bmw been a 97 318i (the most popular model) i would think they are plenty of secondhand parts around. but i never know for sure.

The insurer has to repair the car to a quality standard of what it was before the accident. They will never (or rarely) use second hand parts due to unknown condition, it will majority of the time be brand new parts. I know if someone smashed my car and the insurer fixed it with second hand parts I would be really pissed off.

I havent been in this exact situation but my sister has. In the end she coughed up the money for it, as to fight it in court would have cost more in legal fees, especially if she lost than it was worth to just pay for the damage.

[scathing]

When you pay out of pocket, you get second hand parts or whatever you can scrounge up.

When you've got an insurance company paying, and the person is not at fault, the smash repairer gets the stuff that's gold plated and hand-made by nuns living in the mountains of Romania, in a convent that's only accessible by foot once every fortnight.

I am really sorry to hear you got bent over, though. Its about typical of people, unfortunately. If you or the missus is ever involved in an accident again, I'm sure you'll have insurance and be sure to exchange them.

As people have said, just call up an insurer and ask for a quote. They issue you with a policy number and cover note over the phone, and you have 30 days to pay. If you don't have an accident, then don't pay. If you do, pay the premium and the excess and make the claim.

[IanB]

I got about half-way down the first page then stoped, but my 2c are:

AFAIK in qld, there is a legal requirement for you to leave a certain amount of space between you and the next car if your driving (eg at lights, when you all stop) - the rule of thumb is generally you have to be able to see the bottom of the person in fronts rear tyres.

If you dont do this, and a car slams into your ass, you *can be* responsible if your pushed into the car infront of you. But not allways.

At least thats my understanding of it... me, I just leave enough room between me and the guy infront of me.

[MANWHOR3]

Better to get legal advice then asking some random keyboard warrior on the Internet. There might be a legal loophole to use. Why is it any better to ask on an Internet forum than from someone qualified to give an opinion, and who can be held liable should that opinion be proved incorrect?

If they were to go to court, given the admissions so far you could argue that the amount of damage to the car is not reasonable for the accident caused. And so you shouldn't be liable for the entire charge, just a portion of it.

Unfortunately, that means you'd possibly need to get a hold of the person the BMW was pushed into.

With the right expert witnesses (crash investigators), it could be argued that the damage done to the first car could not have caused that much front end damage to the BMW. Yes it will cost more, but if you go over the itemised repair bill you can question if what the girlfriend did would break certain parts.

Otherwise, the damage is there and needed to be repaired. Without proof that you couldn't have caused it, you'll be screwed.

But, you'd well behind the 8 ball on this one. The lawyer will probably tell you that even if you did win (a long shot in itself) it would cost you more in the end than just swallowing it and paying up. But then, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know for sure.

Sorry scathing, I must have been a bit unclear. I was really tired when I posted.

Basically what I meant to say was, yes, definitely, it is good to get legal advise, then you have a certain answer.

But what I meant, was that legal action does not always solve the problem in your favour.

What you said is spot on the money.

Cheers

[someonestolecc]

If you don't have an insurer the other guys will go to town.

I once touched a commodore VN and snapped part of the skirt. A $300 replacement job at worst.

I had no insurance. The other person claimed it on theirs. Their repairer sees an insurance job and goes to town. They send it to the insurer and the insurer tries to recover $6k from me. I ask for the bill and it's got things on it like "replace badge" on the front of the car and stuff like that.

Needless to say I didn't pay it. I got calls from debt collectors for a few years, I told them the story and they said fine pay it off for the $300 bucks. I said - that's fine and fair.. then legitimately forgot to pay it and they haven't called back since.

I've since been pulling out loans/contracts/rental agreements with no problems so no ill effect on me yet.

Anyway - the point is not to not pay them, but the point is to fight all the way back to the repairer who I will safely assume just see insurance job and put down whatever.

Make sure you're not stiffed! Don't just take it on the chin. Fight and be pro-active but be prepared to pay something!!

[Crimpage]

My mate got t-boned by a girl driving on her L's in her dad's company car.

He was on 3rd party so he couldn't claim it through his insurance, and she definitely wasn't covered. When he got quotes for his car, they gave him a "You pay this much" and "Insurance pays this much" quote, depending on how he tried to do things...

So I say, you are liable (as you know) but fight the 12k as I too think repairs for that much are way too steep.

Dave

[Bass Junky]

Well, I just recently got hit from behind by a member of this board.

I needed a new bumper ($1400), rear panel ($450) and Rear Bar Reo($450).

The parts alone there are worth over $2.2k.

The rear quarters need to then be sprayed and because the roof and rear quarters are one panel in skylines, the whole roof needs to be sprayed.

Add to that the rubbers around both front and rear windows as they have to come out, plus badges, seals, bit and bobs and the bill for the little shunt came to just over $7k

Remember this is a Nissan.

BMW parts would be much more expensive for a start.

Unfortunately I think in this case you are going to have to fess up with the cash.

Sad but true.

[ish]

you must!!! get some legal advice like the rest have mentioned.

your in the wrong mosly and will have to pay but i dont think he is allowed to just get the car repaierd by what ever repairer he chooses with out first following some guidelines...

this may help you in your fight should you choose to take it on.

i remember years ago when this happend to me i had to chase up 3 quotes from different repairers and then discuss which one i wanted to repair my car.

If you could create the argument that this has been done for his gain you might have a chance.

please keep us updated

[gazza750]

1 legal aspect is that you could say you only have to pay for the rear damage to the bmw coz he must have stopped too close to the car in front of him or he would not have hit it i think its 3 car lengths is the legal minimum distance between cars stopped at an intersection so if he was within that distance you might have some comeback there

[Bass Junky]

Unfortuneatly there is no legal amount that you have to stop behind a car.

The fact that he was stationary already proves that he was stopped and a safe enough distance to be safe.

2 car lengths is around 10 meters in most cases and I've NEVER seen anyone pull up that far from another car.

The instructors say that you should pull up so that you can see the rear wheels of the car in front touching the road.

[sigsputnik]

1 legal aspect is that you could say you only have to pay for the rear damage to the bmw coz he must have stopped too close to the car in front of him or he would not have hit it i think its 3 car lengths is the legal minimum distance between cars stopped at an intersection so if he was within that distance you might have some comeback there

No, that's not true. The BMW was stationary - you cannot hit a stationary vehicle, full stop. The onus is on the driver of the moving vehicle here.

[nickcorr]

On the use of second hand parts...

It depends what it is, and how old the car is. RACV will, where possible, use parts of similar quality to those origionaly fitted. That is why cars over 2-3 years old can be fitted with used lights and bumper mouldings, but new crush/reinforcement bars. They might also use pattern parts rather than OEM.

You will never know, unless you hang around the panel beaters and watch who delivers the parts. The insurer just has to get the vehicle back to the condition it was before the accident, not make good any other damage that pre-existed the accident or get it to better condition than before the accident.

Now if you nergotiate with them seperately to do other work at the same time, like a total re-spray, that is between you and the panel beater...

[Yotis]

I got about half-way down the first page then stoped, but my 2c are:

AFAIK in qld, there is a legal requirement for you to leave a certain amount of space between you and the next car if your driving (eg at lights, when you all stop) - the rule of thumb is generally you have to be able to see the bottom of the person in fronts rear tyres.

If you dont do this, and a car slams into your ass, you *can be* responsible if your pushed into the car infront of you. But not allways.

At least thats my understanding of it... me, I just leave enough room between me and the guy infront of me.

In QLD it has happened to my friend's ute, someone rear ended him and he inturn was pushed to the car infront. He ended up paying for the car in front and the person that rear ended him paid for his repair. So in this case I would assume that the OP's GF would have to pay for the damage...

12k seems a bit steep on repairs, but it is a BMW and since the BMW is not at fault (like some guys here said) the BMW dude would pile everything on the accident and also panel beaters will go sweet "extra $$$". Also depends on where the car was repaired too.. if its a prestige place.. 12k is probably normal for the work shop..

Seek legal advise like some people here say and see what they say. Other points you should consider include the following:

1) how fast was your gf driving?

2) did your gf admit to fault on the spot? If she did who was it infront of other than the BMW driver?

Regardless of the outcome be prepared to pay as it is your fault for not having insurance to start with (hash but it is a reality) and your gf breaking too late in the wet......

Edited December 19, 2006 by Yotis

[sillylankan]

i have a solution.

get your GIRLFRIEND to pay, then dump her. LOL!