R33 Rb30 Conversion

[StockyMcStock]

according to my resident expert on such things, raising 380cc injectors' rail pressure to about 70psi will allow them to go out to around 300rwkw, which fits neatly in with what conan is running.

are they standard injectors conan?

[Cubes]

VHR32,

68 - 37 = 31psi extra.. He states its running 15psi boost, thats a 2:1 fpr.

Stocky, The fuel pressure and injectors then fit the bill but shiet... 15psi making almost 300rwkw with such a small turbine housing, comp cover ?!?!?

[StockyMcStock]

oh yeah, i forgot about that. something isn't right there. i mean, i don't think he's lying, but there's so many variables there - not the least of which is the happiness of the particular dyno he's on. what's in a number anyway? i mean we all like to jerk off over what dyno number we get but it doesn't make a lick of difference as to how the car goes or feels on the road. i wouldn't get too hung up about it.

take my car for example, i reckon right now it would put down a big number on a dyno of my choosing, but on the street some gimp with a highflow, cooler and exhaust on his RB30 would destroy me in a race. hell, i might beat him to 250km/h but certainly not to 100. everything's relative.

[sky30]

VHR32,

68 - 37 = 31psi extra.. He states its running 15psi boost, thats a 2:1 fpr.

Stocky, The fuel pressure and injectors then fit the bill but shiet... 15psi making almost 300rwkw with such a small turbine housing, comp cover ?!?!?

Are the injectors stock top feed rb25 n/a, or side feed rb25 turbo?

Yeah, i dont get the 15psi with that turbo making so much power, id like to see it on a dynodynamics dyno to compare the reading.

[sky30]

ye it is the 1.06 housing, not really too worried about the lag, the things great off boost and will hopefully improve my fuel economy too! I guess it will be a good comparisson to yours once tuned!

Its just my mate has the 1.06 on his VL turbo 5 speed, doesnt make full boost till 4200-4300RPM.

1.06 should have bit better economy than .82 etc., will be good to compare tonce you get it tuned.

[Cubes]

Its just my mate has the 1.06 on his VL turbo 5 speed, doesnt make full boost till 4200-4300RPM.

1.06 should have bit better economy than .82 etc., will be good to compare tonce you get it tuned.

It shall be interesting to see if the 4 valve head offers any improvement in spool.

Fatz and his rb26 with the stock ecu had his hitting 17psi (from memory) by around 4500rpm on a stock rb26 ecu, from memory that made 270rwkw.

After a tune that was brought down to 4000rpm and made 294rwkw or something at 15psi. That is an RB26 so no doubt the plenum is possibly helping spool a little maybe??

That being said i've 'heard' *calaisturbo.com* some have the xr6t turbo on their rb30et spooling to 10psi by approx 3300rpm.

BUT.. spool is extremely subjective.

Even if it is a little laggy it shouldn't be too long before garrett release these internal gate .82 housings for the gt35r.

For the price paid it was an absolute bargain.. Too good to pass up.

If I had the money now I would grab one, hopefully he is still able to get one in another couple of weeks.

[sky30]

mates VL has got nizpro plenum, and bigger lift cam, but not sure how that would compare to twincam.

the car your talking about that spools 10psi at 3300, is it Auto or manual?

Auto trans makes a big difference to spool, another lad with a RB30det, 35/40 with .82 exh, Auto makes full boost by 2800rpm, compared to my same motor with same turbo makes full boost at 3400rpm.

[Cubes]

I believe it was a manual that went to auto. Unsure what 3300rpm was with.

Time will tell.... <looks at Darren, where's that guinea pig photo>

I should mention fatz made the inital 270rwkw on 13psi, he is now running cams.

[platinum]

specifically the post i put in post #22

dyno runs are good, but think of the time on one, to get the 600Kms or so before you can start tuning it completely..

From the opinions i've been hearing, that because of the sheer load of a dyno can put on the engine, it's prefered to bed the rings in on the dyno for starters - just wondering if this is what most people do, and just exactly how many k's you'd need to rack up...

[Cubes]

Its not so much the load that a dyno can place on the motor its the flexability of being able to run it in quickly with varying loads that are difficult to replicate on the road due to traffic lights, traffic and.... police.

I ran mine in along christies beach -> moana seafront, lots of accelerating out of round abouts (no decelerating), wastegate wired open as to make sure I can get that throttle wide open.

[conan7772]

according to my resident expert on such things, raising 380cc injectors' rail pressure to about 70psi will allow them to go out to around 300rwkw, which fits neatly in with what conan is running.

are they standard injectors conan?

Yes, side feed RB25DET ones.

Currently pushing 96 % duty.

My engine rebuild was a complete strip down.

Everything was pulled apart and re-assembled from scratch.

Mechanic noted fuel pressure can still go higher but the seals on these stock injectors might leak, from previous experience.

Edited April 10, 2006 by conan7772

[SirRacer]

interesting thing i learnt in the weekend talking to the builder of the rayglass datsun here in nz

car runs 7's on an 1100hp sr20det if people arent aware. hes also built race engines for numerous other teams all in the vicinity of 1100hp on 2.0's

need to find his name actually but he came from the US to build their engine

he said when running in an engine start it and run it until it hits 85degrees then shut it off and go home. do that again the next day

day after that run it up until 85 then let it back down to room temperature and thats all you do. in some applications he also laughed and said that the burnout is the run in.

he also said he didnt like wiseco pistons and highly rated eagle rods which is interesting considering the price

[Cubes]

Did he state why he didn't like Wiseco pistons?

I've done 40,000km's with mine that have been setup with the looser bore/piston clearance to suit wiseco's 'race/24+psi', still exactly the same piston slap when cold as day 1, zero oil usage, perfect compression all within 1psi.

On that note... Always use the piston the engine builder recommends as he is familiar with any little quirks and or requirements the piston has.

Its bad to let a motor idle waiting for it to come up to temp. I wouldn't be following his recommended run in/heat cycling procedure.

[Bl4cK32]

Engine builders prefer to use different parts as Cubes has said. I have the same setup as Cubes, and we use wiseco's - no probs. Our engine builder also lauged at people who build their new engine then sit in the shed and let it run to do the run in.

Personal preference as to what works.

[SirRacer]

he just said he didnt like the design and some of the metals they use

to be perfectly honest though id be more likely to believe someone who has a history is building race engines and actually contracts to some of the big companies designing their rods and engine designs than the local engine rebuilder

he mentioned hes been involved with a gm team that got 1200 hp out of a 2.0 in the states.

i think its a case of perferences really. they are made out of the same metals and id assume in a similar process

EDIT Found his name Scott Revell from Tactics Racing in the US

Edited April 10, 2006 by SirRacer

[Cubes]

Cubes,

I noticed in your results your running RB20DET injectors, 480 cc and at 92 % duty.

What pressure is that at ?

I'm surprised those are maxing out when they're supposed to be ideal for this engine.

92% duty was when it was still running on the stock injectors. 260cc items @ standard fuel pressure.

I rewired my fuel pump so it saw full voltage underload which did give it some more head room, I didn't bother tuning to see exactly how much but it was definitely running richer after the rewire.

I now run GTR injectors which with a little fuel pressure should suffice for what I am after.

Sir Racer,

As I said.. Use the piston your engine builder is comfortable with. What piston does he recommend for the RB's?

You then can't go wrong. All the major Arias, Wiseco, CP, JE you cannot go wrong with providing the engine builder is familiar with them.

Some have had problems with Venolia and their pin/skirt design in RB's, but do remember, a forged piston brand that may be good in a sr20 may not be the best in an rb.

Some don't like the lack of tapered design towards the top of the piston Wiseco don't have, but what they fail to see is the piston has been designed not to require a taper.

Its all about having an engine builder that has experience with the particular engine they are building.

EDIT: It appears Scott uses JE Forged pistons.

[Cubes]

A few piston pictures I've collected over the last couple of years.

Wiseco, JE, CP and Arias.

Note how Wiseco and JE have the same top ring land design (lots of little grooves) compared to the others that don't, must be something in it.

The only bugger about JE is they don't appear to list a piston to suit the RB30 or RB25, no doubt they must have one as its what I believe SK runs.

The RB26 piston I don't believe can be used as the compression height is too low 1.81" vs the 1.260" that is needed.

If the rb26 piston is used in the rb30 it will sit too low in the bore and there's no way your going to shave a little over 1mm off the block. :S

A custom JE piston may be required.

IF JE made an rb25det piston (which they don't appear to do) then you can simply shave 0.020" off the block as the rb25det pistons have a compressio height of 1.240" so yer.. 0.020" lower in the bore which can be sorted by decking the block.

[SirRacer]

i just asked the question re pistons as a general one so i dont think its engine specific. he mentioned something re the way they were made, nothing to do with ring lands whatsoever. if i see him again ill be sure to ask however i dont think hes got much longer in nz. it was incredibly interesting talking to someone who doesnt have a budget for building an engine and seeing what he does and suggests. sydneykid's ideas and his are very very similar. he also agreed that you want the smaller wastegate you can possibly use.

i should have mentioned that he runs the car to 85degrees twice then cools it down then just let it idle and thats it. once thats done they rip off the head and retorque it and then its good to go. he also reccomends running the rev 15w40 on run in which i thought interesting. appararently its mineral based but they use it in the 7second engine so i presume it also has a synethic component.

[Cubes]

Please don't compare a 7second motor to a motor that has hundreds of heat cycles and clocks thousands of km's.

The engine setup, bearing clearances, piston design required are much different.

When you say ' the way they are made' I'm assuming you mean the design.

Maybe he doesn't like the slipper type design in the street motors??

Slipper design reduces friction but also increases bore wear, the wiseco pistons lean a little more towards a true slipper than the rest of the pistons on the market (as can be seen by the pics I've posted).

But its all in the R&D, unless Scott has had experience with a high km RB running these pistons he really can't apply a general theory as he simply does not know, the fact is the wiseco's do work extremely well in the rb30's. I really tend to believe one who has had been working on and rebuilding the rb30's for up to 20years than one who attempts to put his experience with an sr20 to an inline 6 that isn't even released in the US.

Its all about experience with a particular motor. No doubt he is a wizard with the sr20 and knows them like the back of his hand, but the RB30??

[GTR-Ben]

Good points there. Big diff between a street car and a car that only runs at WOT for 7 seconds..

http://www.kiwidragracing.com/multimedia/1...arvey_Slide.mpg

Anyone seen this vid of the datto! look at the fluid that comes out.. ouch.