Is Water/methanol Spray Better Than Fmic?

[Taso84]

Was speaking to a tuner last week regarding my car, and he suggested i remove the FMIC and replace it with a pipe straight from the turbo to the throttle body and have a water or methanol sprayer installed just before the throttle body that sprays in vapour to cool the air.

He said the actual device (sprayer) costs less than $50 to install and its far more efficient than a FMIC that has a pressure drop and is heated by the engine

Anybody tried this sort of setup at all?

To me it made sence sxcept for 1 thing, wouldn't spraying vapour into the air mean that the water will get inside ur engine and screw it up? He said that the water inside ur engine would be harmless, but im not sure about this.

[r33_racer]

No...it doesnt screw it up as it atomises as it enters the intake into the plenum. it cools the intake charge and the fuel also, drops the temps a fair whack so you can add more timing and boost without any dramas. Search for The Mafia + Boost Cooler for info on the setup he tried and alot of others also.

We use it on our race car with great success. Its water and methanol, i wouldnt take the intercooler away, leave it but add the injection on top, intercooler still does a descent job.

However, like anything it needs to be tuned.

[The Mafia]

I run water methanol injection.

ok here are a few tipes -

1. Find another tuner. THis guy has no idea.

2. A Decent Watermethanol kits is $800. There is no way you could get a kit for $50. What, a washer bottle pump and a few $2 hoses? SOunds like dead engine to me.

3. I run water methanol injection AND a Large FMIC. I spray the water methanol through the intercooler for more effect.

http://www.full-throttle.com.au/Engine/Boost%20Cooler.htm

[WazR32GTSt]

it might be effective, even more effective on its own.. i can't answer that

but what i think is you've got to think practically here..

with a FMIC you bolt it up and walk away. every time you drive its always there doing its thing regardless of rpm or engine load

with a water/methanol injection, it has to be tuned to only come on at certain rpm/load. PLUS, you have to re-fill it all the time.

for me, practicallity and proven effectiveness of hte FMIC makes it the winner every day of the week

[BAMR33]

I'm thinking of installing water injection, heard nothing but good things about it if installed and tuned properly.

Rather than having no intercooler why not just keep the stock one and use it with water injection.

[T04GTR]

il be getting this too just trying to decide what kit to use :S

[BAMR33]

Anyone know of kits around the $400 mark, I've only seen them for $600 and over. Seems a bit over priced for what they supply.

[R33S2]

Links to the kits?

[T04GTR]

just google it.

[Cubes]

http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=262

Buy direct and it may save you a few $$.

Thats if you can.

R33_racer, how do you go about tuning the water meth?

I've been reading a little and it appears you setup the afr's to 12.5:1, turn the water/meth inj. on and set that up to drop the afr by half a point. Then start pushing the ignition in to it.

Is that how yours is tuned?

[The Mafia]

Anyone know of kits around the $400 mark, I've only seen them for $600 and over. Seems a bit over priced for what they supply.

If you buy a cheap half assed kit, you will get a cheap half assed result.

$850 for a kit is not overpriced - Considering you get a Shureflow pump (worth over $300) wiring, 3 nozzles (these are top of the range nozzles) and a variable controller with inteligence built in. They creat a nice linear curve of pressure so that you aren't simply turning the pump on full at some pump making a dead spot visible.

They start at 0% pressure and work their way up to 100% depending on how youve adjusted it. Saves water and methanol too.

These kits also have a output for an addon called saftey injection. THis is hooked up to a solinoid, and is plumbed in around your boost controller so that if you run out of water, instead of your motor going bang, it opens your wastegate and runs minimum boost until you resolve the issue. It can also output to a haltek input which changes to less agressive maps...

Trust me, if you buy a $400 kit, you'll regret not spending that bit more.

Links to the kits?

Don't be lazy and read the thread?

Edited March 3, 2007 by The Mafia

[BAMR33]

Yeah, I've seen that site, it'll probably end up being the same price once you get it to your door step though.

Hmmmm wonder if you can use nitro fuel from rc cars in water injection...

[The Mafia]

Yeah, I've seen that site, it'll probably end up being the same price once you get it to your door step though.

Hmmmm wonder if you can use nitro fuel from rc cars in water injection...

you can use something similar that they sell. Not sure how bad of an effect it has on the motor though

[Cubes]

Mafia... What do you think about buying from the US as it does appear cheaper?

The kits are the same brand etc. But do they contain the same gear?

[The Mafia]

Mafia... What do you think about buying from the US as it does appear cheaper?

The kits are the same brand etc. But do they contain the same gear?

They are a fraction cheaper, but they won't sell them to you because they don't like to undercut their australian dealers. I've tried it.

Trust me, best option is to grab one of Full throttle performance. Best $850 I ever spent. Oh, and you neer ever have to use octane booster again, and that saves quite a bit of money over time. I remember when I was buying drum after drum of toluene, that alone would have paid for a WM kit that would have been so much better.

[tom9999]

Can you mix water and methanol in a bottle and spray it on the intercooler does that work better then just water.

Edited March 3, 2007 by tom9999

[The Mafia]

Thats a waste of methanol...

[Dale FZ1]

Hmmmm wonder if you can use nitro fuel from rc cars in water injection...

Serious question Brett?

The concept of using water injection involves adding the fine mist to a hot intake charge, and the water absorbs the heat energy to convert to a gas (steam), thereby cooling the intake charge. More dense intake charge then allows tuning to make the power. Obviously there are benefits that adding a certain % methanol to the mix brings, but note people do not use 100% methanol. Water will accept/mix the alcohol but only to a certain extent.

I'm aware of some of the properties of nitromethane, but who in their right mind would try using that in a water injection setup? The risk of fire amongst other things is just a little high, and I'd be dubious how stable that commercial mixture is - ie. how fast would you have to use it once opened?

cheers

Dale

Edited March 4, 2007 by Dale FZ1

[Dale FZ1]

http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=262

R33_racer, how do you go about tuning the water meth?

I've been reading a little and it appears you setup the afr's to 12.5:1, turn the water/meth inj. on and set that up to drop the afr by half a point. Then start pushing the ignition in to it.

Cubes I think you'd find the AFR would become leaner due to the increased density of the cooler intake charge. Therefore you'd want to add fuel.

The slower burn rate should allow more advance to be wound in as you say.

[Cubes]

According to the boost cooler forum the blokes there state it makes the afr read richer.

http://www.snowperformance.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569

You will want to set up your A/F ratio to around 12:1 without the methanol injection and stock timing.

Once that is set you enable the injection and A/F should richen up by 1/2 point for 50/50 mix. Then start to increase timing 2-3 deg at a time until there is no change in HP.

and..

http://www.snowperformance.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=731