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2008 F1 Season

wolverine

By wolverine,
in Motorsport Discussion & Builds

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m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted

I signed as well.

I think the decision needs to be reversed.

What i dont understand is that having told RD the pass was fine, CW set the precendent where Mac could just keep going with the comfort of knowing there wouldnt be any repercussions. RD said himself that if the pass was deemed unsatisfactory, then they would have asked LH to let KR through again.

Mac were told the pass was legit and as far as they were concerned that was the end of the story...

And now this...

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Beer Baron Grand Master

Beer Baron

Posted
Posted

I prefer this one: http://www.petitiononline.com/belg08/petition.html

it only has one signature, but check out who it is... :P

dezz Grand Master

dezz

Posted
Posted
Ok. Youve got my attention, now.

I saw your post and how qualified you are to comment and thats all fine.

I have a great life here in Tokyo - thanks for your concern. My job affords me plenty of time to do other things i love doing and i still get paid really well...that includes watching F1 footage frame by frame if i feel like it.

Again, if the FIA had NOT investigated this incident, would you be up in arms as passionately as is the case now?

All these peeps saying he wasnt past him...blah blah blah...

You know what? The race stewards REPORT to CW and he makes the final call - he isnt called the RACE DIRECTOR for nothing, you know.

CW told Mac and RD on 2 occassions that is was OK - right after the incident.

What more do you want?

Make sure you get your facts straight before calling on your wealth of experience.

If CW told me, you or the neighbours dog that the pass was OK i would bloody well leave it at that.

CW will come into play heavily in the next couple of weeks you can rest assured and on the strength of his testimony, Mac should be cleared and reinstated.

Simple.

Looks like you're the one that needs to get your facts straight, as pointed out by Duncan. Gee, don't you look sillier now :P

If Whiting was able to tell Mac so soon after the incident that it was all ok, then I seriously doubt he had time to carry out the same in depth investigation as the race stewards.

I have a CAMS Level 2 licence. I must say filling out the form wasnt too bad, but licking that stamp and envelope, then finding a post box... Phew, talk about hard work. :)

:rofl::huh:

I also have my CAMS L2S licence, so am MORE THAN QUALIFIED to comment on all things motorsport.

As for the petition, so what? So those 50,000 arm chair racers are suddenly qualified to judge the incident all of a sudden are they?

Also telling Garage that he isn't in a position to question your authority due to his post count.... :(

Looks like its time for everyone in the F1 thread to bow down to dezz, the undisputed leader!

Roy Grand Master

Roy

Posted
Posted
Sorry I can't let that go. its actually the opposite, the race director and their officials (flaggies, scruitineers etc) report incidents to the stewards for investigation.

There is a deliberate and clear seperation between the stewards and the rest of the officals to maintain their independance.

NO, really? I mean? How do you know that? :P Dont bother using facts Duncan...the obvious answer will be "well the rules are wrong :rofl:"

Even Dennis admitted he asked the wrong person...but i have given up. Its a tough decision...but fark me McLaren have done themselves no favours at all. If ppl want to continue to paint Lewis/McLaren as the completely innocent victims then so be it. It was a tough call but there is substance and merit to the penalty.

Perhaps McLaren are repeatingly being bitten by these sorts of things because they fail to admit their part in each affair. I mean without acceptance of a small portion of the blame they go on in their infallible ways...only for history to repeat (in a slightly different way) I dont think that is 100% but a part of it probably rings true. I am sure McLaren are looked at harder by the FIA then other teams. Thats more reason to be doing it right. But they need to look at what role they have played then ensure try not to put themselves in a similar situation.

I have found if i have stuffed up at work i tell the head of the wrong department because i know he probably doesnt give a damn or know better...he will tell me its ok and i am in the clear. I would never tell my boss about the stuff up in case i hear something i dont want to hear...a grilling :huh:

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted

How bout looking at the issue in question instead of going off in tangents?

Let me say it yet again. Charlie Whiting told Ron Dennis that the pass was legitimate and it was okay.

It has already been said by Wolve that CW passes the dispute to the stewards if he deems there has been a problem. CW said there was no problem so it should not have gone to the stewards, correct?

Now, if CW had told RD that all was okay and LH continued on his mewwy way, how is it then Dezz, that LH was stripped of his win?

You can do basic math, right?

*edit*

Either RD made that up or something has happened between that radio transmission to CW and CW talking to the stewards.

I cant make out clearly whats going on behind the scenes here...

Beer Baron Grand Master

Beer Baron

Posted
Posted
I prefer this one: http://www.petitiononline.com/belg08/petition.html

it only has one signature, but check out who it is... :P

will nobody sign this poor blokes petition? c'mon. have a heart.

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted

wtf?

5. Beer Baron SAU I agree with kimi, I was taking a sh1t when it happend. but the FIA should not interfere. The stewards decision is final. They are the law. Judge, jury and executioner.

You are taking the piss, right?

salad Veteran

salad

Posted
Posted

From what Duncan's said, CW AND the other officials can report stuff to the stewards. So CW didn't think much of it, but others obviously did, and reported it. The stewards then make the decision.

I don't really see how Troy's example is a tangent, it is an analogy that most people would be able to relate to. RD what CW had to say, but he isn't the one that has the final word. That's my take on it anyway.

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted
From what Duncan's said, CW AND the other officials can report stuff to the stewards. So CW didn't think much of it, but others obviously did, and reported it. The stewards then make the decision.

I don't really see how Troy's example is a tangent, it is an analogy that most people would be able to relate to. RD what CW had to say, but he isn't the one that has the final word. That's my take on it anyway.

I was referring to Dezz but the thing is CW is the race director!

I am sure without doubt it wouldnt have been handballed without his final approval.

Its a weird one.

Beer Baron Grand Master

Beer Baron

Posted
Posted
wtf?

5. Beer Baron SAU I agree with kimi, I was taking a sh1t when it happend. but the FIA should not interfere. The stewards decision is final. They are the law. Judge, jury and executioner.

You are taking the piss, right?

no it's true, I'm serious, I really was taking a cr4p when it happend. :P so yes, not taking the piss, taking a cr4p. glad to be able to clear that one up...

blackrex Mentor

blackrex

Posted
Posted

I would be willing to say that what most likely happened with the conversatons between RD and CW where that RD got on the email and asked about redressing, CW (or his 2ic) replied saying that if a proper attempt was made, then it would be OK. As LH was then able to be right on the tail of KR up to La Source and then passed him into the corner (as well as "propping" on the apex, going by the engine note to try and stop KR from diving under him) then CW decided that not enough effort was made in the redress (the driver doing the redress must not make any gain, and should really be in a worse position regarding the other car than before the cause of the redress situation) and because of this, the referral to the stewards was made.

FWIW, my credentials for talking about this are as follows.

CAMS B2 (Steward)

CAMS C2 (Event command) - Mainly Clerk OF Course / Race director role

CAMS F2 (Flag Marshal)

The level 2 (now replaced with Silver as a license grade) means that I can act as a senior official at national event, or as a 2ic at international events. I also had a National circuit license.

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted

Thats all well and good but i cant see it happened that way...

Not according to MW anyway...

Whitmarsh also repeated the claim of Ron Dennis, made immediately after the race, that Hamilton's move past Raikkonen was deemed legal and fair by race director Charlie Whiting.

"From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'," Whitmarsh explained.

"If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis's actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."

One as yet-unanswered peculiarity in the brief press release issued by the stewards in which they announced their decision to punish Hamilton was the claim that they acted upon a 'report received by the race director' - namely, Whiting.

Whiting himself has yet to comment on the matter but could prove to be a key witness if McLaren's appeal is heard - something that remains in doubt despite the team's registering their notice of appeal.

Roy Grand Master

Roy

Posted
Posted

So, i love the guy to death, but please oh please can DC have one good weekend before he marches off to different pastures? Qualifying 6th to Webbers 7th woudl be great. And a top 5 finish to Webbers 5th or 6th will be enough for me. The curtains are about to close for the guy, surely he is massivaly motivated to get a good result. Hell even if he does a stupid low fuel qualifyign effort just to stuff around with the leaders then go really long middle stint. I dont care, come on DC, its killing me watch you race the Hondas and Force Indias

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