Gym And Supplement Discussion

[jangles]

I used IIFYM for baseline information and now use my fitness pal for daily calorie counting, but using the IIFYM numbers as my daily guide.

Which is quite alright to do so.

But if the numbers you are using as a guide aren't working, you're either impatient or not doing something right. Be that not enough exercise for the energy consumed or too much energy for the not enough exercise.

Edited July 9, 2013 by jangles

[Trozzle]

I go by calories, keeping carbs as low as I can without ruining energy levels while maintaining ~50g fat intake, and the rest protein. This works for ME. Probably wouldn't work for you (being anyone else) in the same way it does for me - it might be worse or better.

Just keep poking things until you find the sweet spot.

Yes, that is what she said.

[Dani Boi]

Quite a low fat intake. You must eat a shit load of protein to get your 3.5k+ calories that you have if you are having hardly any fats and minimising carbs.

[Birds]

Leesh is very far from needing to lose weight IMO. She is chasing that other lean -5kg (Dan) that comes from lifting heavy and dieting well, or doing cardio 7 days a week.

[No Crust Racing]

Fair enough, sort of inline with what I was saying.

[markos]

This is only for Leesh.

Cardio will make you fat.

Fat is not scale weight, which is what everyone is talking about, I mean adipose tissue.

Start using your eyes instead of scales when chasing body recomposition.

Listen to those you trust and ask them to be honest about your condition (Birds), and ignore everyone else.

Doing a good progressive resistance training program and making smart food choices for 90% of your meals will take you further than anything else you can do.

There is no secret.

[L33SH]

This is only for Leesh.

Cardio will make you fat.

Fat is not scale weight, which is what everyone is talking about, I mean adipose tissue.

Start using your eyes instead of scales when chasing body recomposition.

Listen to those you trust and ask them to be honest about your condition (Birds), and ignore everyone else.

Doing a good progressive resistance training program and making smart food choices for 90% of your meals will take you further than anything else you can do.

There is no secret.

I do cardio (boxing and aerobics) 2x week and I do weights 4x a week.

I feel my food choices are smart. I have my daily food diary viewable on my fitness pal for anyone who wishes to view it.

I want muscle definition and need to lower body fat percentage to achieve this

[markos]

Okay.

In 2007 Nina was very unhappy with the way she looked. She was running 4 -6 x week, between 5-7km each day, lifting weights like most on here do, nothing specific.

So she asked for help.........finally, we had been together since 1988, only took 19 years.

I told her to enter a powerlifting meet. She was perplexed. She had never done any powerlifting specific training. I explained if she entered a comp, paid her fee and committed she would work much harder. She agreed only if I would train her. I agreed only if she did EVERYTHING I said. Done.

First thing, stop running. She weighed 63kg at 164cm. She was confused, she was going to lift in the 60kg class, how would she lose the weight without running.

Weigh in on comp day, Nina is 57kg, not one cardio session, no running, just very heavy max effort lifting for around 8 weeks.

Most dont know this about Nina but she would much rather run than lift weights. She is poorly suited to powerlifting, she is successful because she is determined, not talented.

The reason she powerlifts is because of how lean it keeps her. Last time she had her body fat % measured it was 12%. Only Max measured leaner in our gym back then.

The numbers are irrelevant, she is very lean, hasnt run for 6 years, might do a kettlebell circuit every 3 months.

She is strict with food intake 90% of the time, very high protein diet, every meal.

Any exercise that doesnt contribute to the body getting into an anabolic state is forcing the body into a catabolic state. There is no neutral ground.

Now ALL exercise is catabolic, but heavy weight training produces an anabolic state, "cardio" does not

Anabolic build muscle, muscle burns fat

Catabolic wastes muscle lowers basic metabolic rate

Nina had been doing cardio based exercise since she was 17, 1981, followed Pritikin diet, health nut.

When she started PL she finally looked like one.

Hope this helps Leesh

If you want to talk to Nina directly she is on Facebook, very friendly and helpful

[L33SH]

Thanks Markos

I don't do running anymore though. I was doing cardio 6x days a week and gave it up when I started weight training.

I can't give up my aerobics class; it helps with my depression. I have tried to give it up and it's just something I really don't want to do for my mental health.

I enjoy boxing and I see many of the guys who lift weights in the boxing class too. Should I not be doing boxing once a week?

I give 100% to my weight program and pretty happy with the weights I'm lifting, except for bench is still at a bit of a standstill. I enjoy weights but I have no desire to be a powerlifter.

I'm averaging around 130g protein a day in my diet.

[markos]

When someone tells me they run, or box, walk, whatever, I ask them why they do it. If they say because they love it or enjoy it, I tell them to keep going.

If they say to get leaner, I stop them. It won't help, it makes it worse

Firstly, you should do what you love doing, no pointing being lean if your unhappy.

Nina was unhappy because she wasnt lean.

Whats a powerlifter in your mind Leesh?

[L33SH]

In my mind it's someone who lifts heavy weights in competitions.

[markos]

Thats 1% of what they do, the rest of the time they try and lift heavier in the squat, bench and deadlift

Sound familiar?

[Birds]

Thanks Markos

I don't do running anymore though. I was doing cardio 6x days a week and gave it up when I started weight training.

I can't give up my aerobics class; it helps with my depression. I have tried to give it up and it's just something I really don't want to do for my mental health.

I enjoy boxing and I see many of the guys who lift weights in the boxing class too. Should I not be doing boxing once a week?

I give 100% to my weight program and pretty happy with the weights I'm lifting, except for bench is still at a bit of a standstill. I enjoy weights but I have no desire to be a powerlifter.

I'm averaging around 130g protein a day in my diet.

Babe you've only just started deadlifting and squatting; these are major muscle building exercises. I gave you strength goals to work towards, because when you reach those (if you're still eating healthy), you will have a much lower body fat due to more muscle burning more calories with the same caloric intake.

There's a reason I still have ~10% bf, despite not having run for months and still eating large quanties of food all day. The muscle keeps the fat at bay, and I don't even have that much muscle.

I agree with everything Markos has said here and it's what I've been trying to instill in you, because you can't alter a training and diet regiment and expect it to work for you in the same way. You want to throw in cardio with it or leave out some exercises and you are going to be waiting a lot longer for your results.

As to what she looks like, Leesh has made some good improvement in the upper body...lats and shoulders are doing great. But she has been doing bench and lat pulldowns / rows a lot longer than she has squats and deads, so that's to be expected and there's still plenty of work to be done for the latter two.

[bozodos]

Markos did you change Nina's diet, or did it stay the same?

[SRS13]

For the last 16 months or I was doing bodybuilding type stuff ie chest/tri's, back/bi's, shoulders/traps and legs. Combination of compound and of course isolation exercises.

Only in the last 3 weeks I have done the 'skinny guy routine' a (or something resembling that) ie

• squats x 5 sets
• flat bench x 5 sets
• lat pull downs x 4 sets (would normally do chins but have a niggle in my forearm)
• upright rows x 3 sets
• military press x 3 set
• dips x 3 sets

(no deads for 3 weeks!)

Do this Mon, Wed and Fri and on Saturday I do light shoulders with bi's and tri's.

Feel I'm getting bigger everywhere and just putting on heaps of size yet still getting defined, way more than I was doing the split body parts. No isolation and no cardio yet feel great. Am impressed with the results but sort of expect it when you train the 'whole' body 3 times per week.

[No Crust Racing]

But she has been doing bench and lat pulldowns / rows a lot longer than she has squats and deads, so that's to be expected and there's still plenty of work to be done for the latter two.

This is me, plus I chose breaking my leg to be the time I'd start thinking about it lol

[No Crust Racing]

SRS13: That's close to my routine, see build thread, and it's not going too bad

[markos]

Nina has always eaten clean. She'd never been to Maccas till she met me.

We actually upped her calories, she has very little rice, no pasta, very little bread, loves sweet potatoes

She's been like that for 30 years, except for the booze when she was younger lol

Birds, it took 19 years for Nina to listen to me, you and Leesh have a way to go

[Birds]

Birds, it took 19 years for Nina to listen to me, you and Leesh have a way to go

Fuck

[Birds]

This is me, plus I chose breaking my leg to be the time I'd start thinking about it lol

We get it, you broke your ankle, stop using it as an excuse