Has The Nissan Gt-r Got Toyota Running Scared?

[scathing]

There's an op ed on Motor Trend, wondering where the LF-A has gotten to.

It was Ed Loh who first noticed: "Funny," he said. "Once the production GT-R arrived, the Lexus LF-A prototypes disappeared from the Nurburgring."

Toyota's problem is this: The GT-R has set the performance bar incredibly high for the next Japanese supercar. And Toyota being Toyota, delivering a supercar that's second-best to a Nissan is unthinkable, especially if it's going to carry the Lexus badge. The LF-A has to be faster than the GT-R, in a straight line, and around the legendary Nordschliefe. Otherwise it risks being perceived a failure.

Why Toyota would suddenly have an issue delivering a performance car that's second best? The last time I checked they were a pretty conservative company, and didn't like trying something new. Nissan's beating them on JGTC and their F1 team only gets to see the podium when they're standing around looking up at the winners.

The only international-level series they did reasonably well at was WRC, but it appears the shock of coming first was so great that they ended their WRC program to join F1 and stick to what they knew.

Edited April 14, 2008 by scathing

[lingeringsoul]

they do have the potential to build fast cars considering their Super GT results have been in the top 5 so far. They just haven't built anything awe inspiring since when I was in highschool. Same goes for honda, although they did make the S2000 and the new civic but it just didn't have that OMPH.

[ras1983]

I'd imagine that Toyota are more concerned with becoming the #1 car maker on the planet.

[R338OY]

I reckon all Toyota can do is outgun Nissan in another direction. i.e. create a monster mid-mounted V8 RWD Lambo eater. They seem to be heading down that path from the YouTube videos of the next Supra (i think it was a V8/V10?)

They will be wasting their time trying to take Nissan's customers. Everyone's wrapped by the GTR, plus the media campaign for it was so strong Toyota will have a very hard time convincing the world to get a 21st century Supra.

Also i don't totally buy the article's comment that Toyota HAS to beat the GTR or it'll be a failure. It only needs to keep up, make strong sales, and cater for a global market. They're already going to have an affluent, niche customer base with their wanky 'F1 inspired' Lexus punchline. And even by milking the Lexus badge as their ultra-performance model also shows they're conscious of PR, niche markets and providing what the GTR lacks (an aura of class). Lexus hasn't got a strong racing heritage like GTR or Ferrari does, so they're using the Lexus brand to provide theat 'glow' which makes us go wild for 'GTR'.

GTR is an all-rounder. Toyota will probably look into an exotic supercar with a premium price tag. That's where i'm putting my money.

Edited April 14, 2008 by R338OY

[West]

Their turn over on the Camry is still higher than the new GTR anyway .

[Forged]

I reckon all Toyota can do is outgun Nissan in another direction. i.e. create a monster mid-mounted V8 RWD Lambo eater. They seem to be heading down that path from the YouTube videos of the next Supra (i think it was a V8/V10?)

They will be wasting their time trying to take Nissan's customers. Everyone's wrapped by the GTR, plus the media campaign for it was so strong Toyota will have a very hard time convincing the world to get a 21st century Supra.

Also i don't totally buy the article's comment that Toyota HAS to beat the GTR or it'll be a failure. It only needs to keep up, make strong sales, and cater for a global market. They're already going to have an affluent, niche customer base with their wanky 'F1 inspired' Lexus punchline. And even by milking the Lexus badge as their ultra-performance model also shows they're conscious of PR, niche markets and providing what the GTR lacks (an aura of class). Lexus hasn't got a strong racing heritage like GTR or Ferrari does, so they're using the Lexus brand to provide theat 'glow' which makes us go wild for 'GTR'.

GTR is an all-rounder. Toyota will probably look into an exotic supercar with a premium price tag. That's where i'm putting my money.

Good point. I agree Toyota doesn't require a supercar that rivals the GTR directly but instead should focus on niche markets provding more class, more exotic visual presence and could go even more hi tech. Take advantage of their F1 image and resources. Mid engine, rear wheel drive and V10 could be a winning formula.

[GTS4WD]

Their turn over on the Camry is still higher than the new GTR anyway .

word is.. new Supra is comming out soon..

Do I smell a new GTR vs. Supra argument comming on?

Toyota has to pull something special out..

[Bumblebee]

ive always lol'd @ supra vs gtr arguments.. coz there isnt one..

its never been gtr vs supra.. its always been gtr vs porsche and supra thought it could take a hit @ the gtr.. but the gtr was only ever made to win races and kick porsche to the curb.

as for lambo killin supras.. that would be awesome.. but the gtr already does that lol

id love to see a merc killin lexus thou.. luxo barge vs luxo barge

[sh@un]

its never been gtr vs supra..

well, yeah- it has

because both represent the pinnacle of Japans front engined, turbo-charged high-performance cars

the fact that the specs (apart from AWD) and prices where so similar meant they were natural competitors

the LF-A (or what ever it ends up being called) will no doubt look better, but the R35 will just get on with being the better supercar

[Yo-Yo]

who honestly cares?

The GTR is a great car, and i'm sure the lexus will be too.

I'm more wrapped that the next gen performance cars from Japan will get the European competition running scared

[R-PWR]

Dw about Toyota they will bring something amazing, its taken this bloody long.

[alexk]

Wasn't the supra primarily built to take on the american V8's?

[Bumblebee]

thats right. its never been gtr vs supra.

nissan didnt make the gtr to take on the supra. it was made to defeat porsche.

toyota didnt make the supra to beat the gtr.. it was to thrash the american muscle cars.

supra owners then took it upon themselves to challange the gtr and vise versa but that was never what the manufactures intended.

they were both after different markets. never against each other

[jarthel]

in relation to the topic title, Nissan will never make Toyota scared. It's all about the bottomline and Toyota wins that hands down.

[The Baron]

I work for Toyota and I can tell you I've now waited 9 years for anything decent to get as a company car (and still waiting).

Heck I'd be happy if they bring out the Corolla 'Blade' with the 200kW V6 from the Aurion (as they have in Japan) but alas nothing on the horizon.

We only ever missed out on the Supra because of the stupid number plate holders - Japan wasn't willing to modify the bumper moulds to meet Australian ADR specs (tightar$e$)

Anyway - it will be a LONG time before the big T releases a Supra replacement. Yes the LF-A will make it be about 2010 and there may be the mooted Toy-Baru WRX based Celica replacement by that time, however realistically the next thing will be a Hybrid Sportscar like the FT+HS concept and that won't be done till about 2012 in Japan so maybe 2014 for us (if we get it)

Till then I hope you all have fun in the TRD Hilux - cos that's where the Australian money is at.

[gadget1382]

TRD Hilux is da BOM!!!

more potential too!

BUT toyota australia are taking the reliable conservative road for long term sales rather than high performance "risks". Nissan has been losing % of sales since they dropped the Pulsar badge and are only just getting back up there with the Navara and others holding their ground.

The GTR will get ppl into showrooms, but they need to get their reputation back. Not that it's bad now. But they dont have a NEW car that you think, if i had the $$ for a specific purpose thats what i'd get.

Eg. Small car, you'd go Mazda or Toyota. Medium car - Toyota Ford Mazda, Large car - Holden Ford, Ute - Toyota Holden Ford... etc

Although the larger FWD layout cars are great for a daily driver and build quality is better than Ford or Holdens, ppl in Aus cant seem to look past the whole "Need a RWD" mentality.

As for the LF-A it will be aiming at the Merc's, Bimmers and lesser extent Austin Martins etc. I dont think the Lambo and Ferrari are in the league they are aiming at.

[Sydneykid]

ppl in Aus cant seem to look past the whole "Need a RWD" mentality.

Which is exactly why Nissan should drop the Maxima and bring in 2 door and 4 door Skylines instead.

Cheers

Gary

[gtst4d]

Which is exactly why Nissan should drop the Maxima and bring in 2 door and 4 door Skylines instead.

Cheers

Gary

Could not of said better myself

[scathing]

Nissan Australia should drop themselves, and replace the current management with people who understand the market.

[IOWNU]

Makes sense.

The Supra has always been in the GTRs shadow.

I'm pretty sure Toyota don't want a repeat perormance.