Water/meth Injection & E85 Fuel

[FineLine]

Last time I checked, Nitrous Oxide was a power adder and water wasn't. By that logic, a turbocharger is an 'extra' system. Clearly that's not what I'm talking about.

Drawing a long bow there dude. nitrous is as much an extra system as water meth, and achieves precisely the same result. Cooler combustion temps.

Dunno bout your car but mine came with a turbo charger. An "extra" system it most definitely is not.

(the fact that it no longer even closely resembles the factory "system" is totally irelevant)

[jet_r31]

Darren, you may well be right but it's adding another system into the mix and the more complex you make things, the more likely something is to go wrong. The way I see it, the E85 does a couple of things much better than regular pump unleaded and that's good enough for me and most people. Like anything though, it can be improved and that's where people might like to use a WMI kit as well. I've got enough confusion going on in my setup to bother though.

Ha,ha, i know what you saying!, but once you've used it you will never not be

able to have it again! , then again i would never use a kit that uses a pump anyway

i'm shit scared that they will stop working(because they all do, its a matter of time)

the only thing to go wrong on a system using boost pressure is that a solenoid didn't switch on,

but i have a light hooked up to it, to tell when it switches on

cheers

darren

Edited December 9, 2008 by jet_r31

[2rismo]

Drawing a long bow there dude. nitrous is as much an extra system as water meth, and achieves precisely the same result. Cooler combustion temps.

Dunno bout your car but mine came with a turbo charger. An "extra" system it most definitely is not.

It isn't drawing a long bow at all. The primary function of nitrous oxide use in an internal combustion engine is to add extra oxygen and make more horsepower. It doesn't matter how long it's used for or in what fashion. This is its only application. One of the side effects of its use is that intake temperatures are reduced. This is not a primary concern in any application of automotive nitrous oxide. I agree that it is an extra system but only for the purposes of making my point in relation to water injection.

Water is most definitely not a power adder and it does not achieve "precisely the same result" as outlined above. Water cools the intake temps but that is all. It will not make more power in its own right and therefore it is irrelevant to compare it with nitrous oxide.

(the fact that it no longer even closely resembles the factory "system" is totally irelevant)

I lol'd!

Darren, how is your setup constructed? Boost pressure switch opening a solenoid? How is it jetted etc? Would love to see pics.

[rtune]

Water is most definitely not a power adder and it does not achieve "precisely the same result" as outlined above. Water cools the intake temps but that is all. It will not make more power in its own right and therefore it is irrelevant to compare it with nitrous oxide.

Water also reduces the heating during the compression stroke which is the largest part of the heat increase from ambient prior to ignition.

Not because it is cold, but because it is water..

less heating during compression means higher knock threshold means higher effective octane ratio means more advanced timing means more power.

I'm not sure which is more effective but I'd wager it is not the intake charge temp drop, but the decreased heat during compression. If you put on a 100% efficient intercooler, you still can't get the same result as water injection.

[2rismo]

Water also reduces the heating during the compression stroke which is the largest part of the heat increase from ambient prior to ignition.

Not because it is cold, but because it is water..

less heating during compression means higher knock threshold means higher effective octane ratio means more advanced timing means more power.

I'm not sure which is more effective but I'd wager it is not the intake charge temp drop, but the decreased heat during compression. If you put on a 100% efficient intercooler, you still can't get the same result as water injection.

Be that as it may, water isn't now and will never be a power adder in and of itself.

[jet_r31]

Yeh just the usual switched on by a pressure switch, turns on 2 solenoids, one for air, one for water

and presurisses a tank which goes to a flow control valve then to a air/water atomiser

pre-turbo, never any sign of wear.

was controlable from 650-900hp of water flow, but riceracing has a trick valve now that will control

the same atomiser from 250-900hp, trick little valve and cheap to

cheers

darren

[R33S2]

The way water/meth works (explained to me by an auto engineer) is the meth cools the intake temps and the water reduces detonation by squelching any hot spots in the chamber, it can make intake temps cooler by way of the intercooler but the meth does that job much better, just remember that water is like a solid and doesnt compress very well.

I agrre with the "extra system" idea and it is one more thing that can go wrong.