Anyone Run Sprints With Their Hybrid

[Imtorqing]

Hey guys just wondering if anyone here has run their hybrids at sprint meets.

I contacted my engine builder for a check regarding oil issues before I went out and was warned about going 100 percent flat out as they had a number of hybrids that after doing track work have come back with main bearing problems.

Anyway interested to hear from the community.

Cheers

Imtorqing

[PM-R33]

What oil modifications have been done to the engine? I think regardless whether its a RB25, RB26 or twin cam RB30, the oil problems would be the same. Obviously the more power you're pushing (judging by your sig quite a lot) and the more revs you give it, it'll become more apparent if the oil system isn't up to it.

[R31Nismoid]

Hey guys just wondering if anyone here has run their hybrids at sprint meets.

I contacted my engine builder for a check regarding oil issues before I went out and was warned about going 100 percent flat out as they had a number of hybrids that after doing track work have come back with main bearing problems.

Anyway interested to hear from the community.

Cheers

Imtorqing

If the motor was built correctly - there is no reason you cannot got as hard as you can.

If the engine builder is saying not to go 100%, I would be worried as to his reasons which relate to his build for saying this... because there MUST be issues he knows of if he is saying that.

Built motors are just that - build... build for a reason, to handle longer RPMs/power etc etc than a stock motor

[N1GTR]

Whats the point of the 30 conversion if you cant track/thrash it?!

Go back to the mechanic, ask him specifically; Why not? Get him to go into as much detail as possible and let us know

It would be interesting to see actual damage/info on the hybrids he mentioned that are damaged

Side note: Do you have a dyno sheet handy? Would like to see the 42R curve you've got if you dont mind

[Imtorqing]

Whats the point of the 30 conversion if you cant track/thrash it?!

Go back to the mechanic, ask him specifically; Why not? Get him to go into as much detail as possible and let us know

It would be interesting to see actual damage/info on the hybrids he mentioned that are damaged

Side note: Do you have a dyno sheet handy? Would like to see the 42R curve you've got if you dont mind

I have attached the dyno print out (on 18psi without the cam gears touched yet. Hopefully that will bring it on a bit quicker).

Basically what I have been told is the problem they are finding is with the RB30 Block as this generally is not a problem with 26's and 25's.

Apparently when under full load and race conditions (Pulling good G forces whilst ringing the t!ts off it) the block is liable to flex or something to that effect which can/does affect the oil delivery to the main bearings etc (They modify the RB30 crank to give the big ends 360 degree oiling when making their hybrids to increase oil delivery as only RB26's and SR20's from GTIR Pulsars have this as they were built with racing in mind). Apparently they tried various things to do with oil delivery like bigger sumps, high volume pumps, dry sumps etc but the motors were coming back with the same problems. They have since found that a custom made girdle has stopped this problem as it strengthens/better braces the block.

The problem is ;

New girdle is custom made and currently they don't have a price but could be anywhere up to 3g's.

New girdle means line boring the block again which requires complete stripping of the motor and basically rebuilding the engine, new rings, bearings, gaskets etc etc. Then for circuit work (I wanted to do it as much as I could) they recommend a Greddy, Tomei or similar high volume pump etc etc apparently $2200 of which I currently have an N1.

So basically it would cost me in the vicinity of another 10 g's give or take a grand.

They have stated that I have a BULLET PROOF STREET ENGINE meaning not a problem running straight lines and the odd corner or corners but race constant conditions are a completely different kettle of fish.

I was pretty bummed out and think I will be saving up for a bit as I really want to do circuit and basically the amount of work that has been done to my motor cancels out any chance of starting over as the parts are not interchangeable.

My motor was built back in 2004 when they were still relatively new.

I don't hold any grudges against my engine builder(I LOVE THEM BIG TIME IN A NON GAY TYPE) as they have done awesome work, my motors have never missed a beat and have gone like a rockets.

Basically I just wanted to see if any other people had their hybrid fail and if they would share their failure.

[Beer Baron]

all of what they have told you is pretty sensible. yes a good track engine is very different to a good street engine. and yes racing places some supreme load on stuff.

I know N1GTR says what's the point if you can't thrash and track it, but steve your first 26 blew up at the track, then the new RB30 hybrid only lasted a few weeks (days?) or so, and then the next one did the same and went after a track day if memory serves. so that's 3 engines done at the track. duncan is worse having done what must be close to a dozen engines at the track, but he is a bit different doing door to door racing and in a controlled class where engines must be standard.

so yeah, to run reliably at the track with decent power does take some though. if your engine was built 5 years ago then it's quite possible they have learnt some new tricks since then about making them live at the track.

having said all that if you do want to track it do the following:

make sure you have a decent oil cooler, preferably mounted in one of the ducts, not just slapped between the intercooler and radiator.

get good quality oil temp, oil pressure and water temp gauges or an all in one monitor, but must have adjustable warnings with buzzer and light.

use good oil. a group V base stock would be the go, like motul 300V.

at the track keep the revs down - a quick blast on the street to the redline in 2nd is no big deal. strapping down the straight to the redline in 4th lap after lap is very different. on the track knock 500rpm or so off what you usually consider max revs. it wont hurt your times considerably but it will help your engine live.

when you get out there take it easy. do a few laps, build up some pace/revs. watch the temps and pressures. if you guage can do it, set it to record say 2 laps flat out. then pull into the pits and replay the gauge. watch to see does oil pressure drop under hard braking or cornering. if it does drop a lot you have an oil surge problem and will need to be carefull.

if that all goes well, then get out there and enjoy. just keep an eye on those revs, temps, and pressures and it should be fine.

[N1GTR]

I have attached the dyno print out (on 18psi without the cam gears touched yet. Hopefully that will bring it on a bit quicker).

Basically what I have been told is the problem they are finding is with the RB30 Block as this generally is not a problem with 26's and 25's.

Apparently when under full load and race conditions (Pulling good G forces whilst ringing the t!ts off it) the block is liable to flex or something to that effect which can/does affect the oil delivery to the main bearings etc (They modify the RB30 crank to give the big ends 360 degree oiling when making their hybrids to increase oil delivery as only RB26's and SR20's from GTIR Pulsars have this as they were built with racing in mind). Apparently they tried various things to do with oil delivery like bigger sumps, high volume pumps, dry sumps etc but the motors were coming back with the same problems. They have since found that a custom made girdle has stopped this problem as it strengthens/better braces the block.

The problem is ;

New girdle is custom made and currently they don't have a price but could be anywhere up to 3g's.

New girdle means line boring the block again which requires complete stripping of the motor and basically rebuilding the engine, new rings, bearings, gaskets etc etc. Then for circuit work (I wanted to do it as much as I could) they recommend a Greddy, Tomei or similar high volume pump etc etc apparently $2200 of which I currently have an N1.

So basically it would cost me in the vicinity of another 10 g's give or take a grand.

They have stated that I have a BULLET PROOF STREET ENGINE meaning not a problem running straight lines and the odd corner or corners but race constant conditions are a completely different kettle of fish.

I was pretty bummed out and think I will be saving up for a bit as I really want to do circuit and basically the amount of work that has been done to my motor cancels out any chance of starting over as the parts are not interchangeable.

My motor was built back in 2004 when they were still relatively new.

I don't hold any grudges against my engine builder(I LOVE THEM BIG TIME IN A NON GAY TYPE) as they have done awesome work, my motors have never missed a beat and have gone like a rockets.

Basically I just wanted to see if any other people had their hybrid fail and if they would share their failure.

What are you using for the sump adaptor?

Those braces are expensive, yes, but like you've said the worst part is the cash needed for the motor to be stripped and rebuilt. The big oil pump ontop will really push the budget over

Powercurve looks good! Thanks for that. Do you have a scale showing RPM?

all of what they have told you is pretty sensible. yes a good track engine is very different to a good street engine. and yes racing places some supreme load on stuff.

I know N1GTR says what's the point if you can't thrash and track it, but steve your first 26 blew up at the track, then the new RB30 hybrid only lasted a few weeks (days?) or so, and then the next one did the same and went after a track day if memory serves. so that's 3 engines done at the track. duncan is worse having done what must be close to a dozen engines at the track, but he is a bit different doing door to door racing and in a controlled class where engines must be standard.

so yeah, to run reliably at the track with decent power does take some though. if your engine was built 5 years ago then it's quite possible they have learnt some new tricks since then about making them live at the track.

having said all that if you do want to track it do the following:

make sure you have a decent oil cooler, preferably mounted in one of the ducts, not just slapped between the intercooler and radiator.

get good quality oil temp, oil pressure and water temp gauges or an all in one monitor, but must have adjustable warnings with buzzer and light.

use good oil. a group V base stock would be the go, like motul 300V.

at the track keep the revs down - a quick blast on the street to the redline in 2nd is no big deal. strapping down the straight to the redline in 4th lap after lap is very different. on the track knock 500rpm or so off what you usually consider max revs. it wont hurt your times considerably but it will help your engine live.

when you get out there take it easy. do a few laps, build up some pace/revs. watch the temps and pressures. if you guage can do it, set it to record say 2 laps flat out. then pull into the pits and replay the gauge. watch to see does oil pressure drop under hard braking or cornering. if it does drop a lot you have an oil surge problem and will need to be carefull.

if that all goes well, then get out there and enjoy. just keep an eye on those revs, temps, and pressures and it should be fine.

26 was a tired stocker

First 30 had a wastegate get stuck open at wakefield. Also no proper catch tank recirc. Get your memory checked mate, cause it wasnt days or weeks

Current 30 is working perfectly, just let down by the ECU which was broken before i bought it, the motor is working without issues, and has definatly had its chance to break, making a good catch tank for it right now while waiting for ecu. Dirtgarage has the ecu to repair as i bought it from him.

[N1GTR]

Bill another avenue to go would be to post the same question on the UK gtr site, they have lots, and LOTS of rb30 gtr's that arent making anything small like 300rwkw etc and seem to do a lot of trackdays/dragdays etc

[Imtorqing]

Bill another avenue to go would be to post the same question on the UK gtr site, they have lots, and LOTS of rb30 gtr's that arent making anything small like 300rwkw etc and seem to do a lot of trackdays/dragdays etc

Thanks for your help guy's, your feedback is appreciated. I will do a search a track down one of these UK GTR sites and ask around. Yeh I cant fault my builder as I value their feedback and they are trying to look after me and my motor.

I have long service up next year for three months so I think I will get another job and get the rebuild done then.

Current redline is 7500rpm (set on the Haltech) which I think is conservative as it is still making power all the way to redline I think 8 wouldnt have been out of the question but being a hybrid with the longer stroke this is what was recommended.

Unfortunately I only got one dyno sheet and don't have one with RPM.

The cars a bit of a slug unless you intentionally launch it as I do get boost and wheel spin in first gear. It really starts coming into its own at around 80k's.

I will be running it at the drugs in the coming weeks but none of my shifts currently fit in(I get a month ahead) with Willowbank's dates.

I still love her like nothing else but every now and then I wouldn't mind a bit of all paw.

Cheers Bill

[PM-R33]

I agree, check out skylineowners.com and mainly gtr.co.uk for a lot of information about twin cam 30's.

[SLAPS]

Speak to that RacerR33 bloke as he used to track his RB30/25 making up around 500rwhp.

There was a bloke on ct.com that raced his VLT with full slicks.

RB30SOHC making up around 700hp; setup on the engine dyno etc never had issues with breaking stuff.

Edited May 8, 2009 by TheRogue

[brent32]

Thanks bill and baron, i think there is alot of people like myself with (dodgy) street setups that could get burned at the sprints, already lost a RB20 in darwin at hidden valley (38 ambient) because of slight overboosting for 5 laps. Not going that way with my RB25/30.