"cookie Cutter" R32 Gts-t Thread.

[_Ryan_]

Well, Most sections of this forum have a sticky thread linking to a list of the basic mods to do, A reference of where to start to get the basics covered when looking to get the car set-up for increased performance.

What i am proposing is all experiences/information is put into this thread, and I will edit and combine(and test) info and put it into this post, which can be added to an FAQ sticky, for future reference.

We see often the same questions being asked, so why not have someone to find the answer besides just the "do a search" response.

A similar thread for each car could be beneficial.

Hopefully Nisskid replys, as his input is normally good !

Obviously start here if you are new to shock absorbers so we don't have to explain why NOT to buy cheap coilovers http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Sh...01-t114718.html

This has some great stickys, and hopefully this will end up there: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Su...ic-t161623.html

Things I would like to see:

Recommended starting setup for Grip, Drift,- Including parts, heights/rates, alignments, and if it can be done in stages or not. then maybe add an option(eg, higher cost- DMS coilovers over a bilstien/eibach setup)

I am new to the R32 setting up game, so this thread will save me posting a heap of questions. And I can also test things out and confirm/deny advice

Thanks for reading and any input,

-Ryan

[_Ryan_]

reserved.

[nisskid]

for now i might just post up my current setup, then go into deeper into it later.

At the front i'm running off the shelf R32 GTS-t Bilstein B6 Dampers, generic autotechnica adjustable spring seats, 325lb/in eibach springs. Whiteline 24mm adjustable sway bars.

At the rear, things get a bit more complex however, the rear runs R32 GTR Bilstein B6 dampers, valved to custom specs, generic adjustable lower seats, and custom upper seats, 225lb/in Eibach springs, i also have some 275lb/in Hypercoil springs which i have experimented with. Whiteline 22mm adjustable sway bars.

there's a fair bit of info on my suspension/arm/subframe setup in my build up thread:

http://hardtuned.net/forums/index.php?show...4873&st=240

[bcozican]

Im Def not guru but just by reading and adding over the past 18 mths i pretty much have my car where I want it , feels good to me.

I have done it in prob 3 stages and can def feel the diff at each stage.

Car is setup for drift, now all I have to do is learn to drive better haha

HSD Coilovers 8 / 6 springs

27mm Adj Swaybars front and rear

Cusco front and rear Strut braces

Pineapples

Hicus lock bar

Kazz 2 way Diff

Kazama Castor rods - 7.5 deg

D Project Camber arms - 3.5 deg

Kazama extra lock tie rods with K adj bump steer Tie rod ends

R33 LCA's

Kazama Rear Camber arms - -1 deg

Run 2mm toe out each side and neutral toe on rear

I run 17 x 9 + 17 Buddyclub P1's 215 Kumho KU36 on front (shouldve gone 235's) good enuff grip for me and Ferderal ss 235's on rear

Edited June 24, 2009 by bcozican

[nisskid]

a few things about the bilsteins, for R32 GTS-t's they are quite soft off the shelf, and really cant deal with a lot over 4kg springs.

however there are a few options, for the rear at least, the S13 dampers are harder, and will go into the R32 rear end. here's some figures i got a while back, speed is unknown, but they give u a rough idea on the difference

					Ex-length	Comp L	 Bump	Rebound
S13 rear b46-1744	   538	   393	   800	  2070
R32 rear b46-1474	   542	   382	   350	  1335

the first 2 figures are lengths, as u can see slight differences, but still fit fine.

now the other option for the rear, is what i've done, R32 GTR B6's, they are fairly similar damping to the S13, just the rebound and bump ratio are a bit different. but they have a different lower mount. there are a few ways to fix this so it fits a GTS-t, you can either get Bilstein in NSW to change over the lower mount, or you can put GTR hubs on like i did which swap straight over.

as u can see, the lower mounts for GTS-t use the eye:

the GTR use forks:

and the GTR hubs:

the mount swap was gonna cost roughly $150 for the 2 if i remember right, the GTR hubs cost roughly $150ea from a wrecker, depending. But the GTR hubs weigh roughly 2.5kg less each, that's a bit drop in unsprung weight, one which would cost u thousands in lightweight wheels. the only other thing is there is a cone which sits on the ball joint on the lower control are for the GTR hubs, this is to distribute the load on the alloy hubs. this cone can either be sourced from nissan, u can press one off an old GTR LCA, u can machine one up urself, or u can just put a whole GTR LCA in with the cone already on (easiest due to how firm the cone sits on the balljoint)

so its worth it imo.

The main reason i went with the GTR bilsteins is because i found some cheap on here, broken, needing a rebuild, and S13 Bilsteins weren't available at the time as there werent any left in Australia.

As far as the front shocks go, there isnt any easy way like the rear, unfortunately the only real option is to send them off to Bilstein and get them revalved, this will cost u a bit over $300 off the top of my head.

[_Ryan_]

This is where my car is starting, with the aim being to make to most of what I have until I hit the limits of it.

Suspension:

Tein Mono-Flex Suspension 8kg/mm front 6kg/mm rear

Kazama Front Castor Rods

Whiteline Hicas Lock with modified Power Steering pump

Cusco Rear Camber arms

Cusco Mechanical LSD (2way)

Cusco Safety21 7Point rollcage

Power steering removed.

Wheels:

R33 GTR

I know i am running coil-overs which is something i normally am against but- 1) they are fairly new, came with the car. 2) they are atleast mono-tube.

So i guess the next step is front camber upper arms(suggestions welcome, noltec? whiteline?), set the subframe angle for grip, get it to a more bump steer friendly ride height(suggestions?) and order some Kumho Ku36 215/45/17 front 235/45/17 rear from http://www.option1garage.com.au/NewTyres.htm Then align it. Possibly get some strut braces if they fit in the budget, JJR make some for $99 but was avoiding chinese on this car.

My deadline is DECA August 15th.

[nisskid]

This is where my car is starting, with the aim being to make to most of what I have until I hit the limits of it.

Suspension:

Tein Mono-Flex Suspension 8kg/mm front 6kg/mm rear

Kazama Front Castor Rods

Whiteline Hicas Lock with modified Power Steering pump

Cusco Rear Camber arms

Cusco Mechanical LSD (2way)

Cusco Safety21 7Point rollcage

Power steering removed.

Wheels:

R33 GTR

I know i am running coil-overs which is something i normally am against but- 1) they are fairly new, came with the car. 2) they are atleast mono-tube.

So i guess the next step is front camber upper arms(suggestions welcome, noltec? whiteline?), set the subframe angle for grip, get it to a more bump steer friendly ride height(suggestions?) and order some Kumho Ku36 215/45/17 front 235/45/17 rear from http://www.option1garage.com.au/NewTyres.htm Then align it. Possibly get some strut braces if they fit in the budget, JJR make some for $99 but was avoiding chinese on this car.

My deadline is DECA August 15th.

Mono-Flex aren't a bad coilover really, much better than most cheap shit, and much better than the rest of teins stuff.

overall looks like a pretty nice setup.

as far as the camber arms, i reckon you may as well go with a rose joint solution, assuming the rest of ur arms are rose joint, being kazama and cusco. cusco or ikeya formula would be ur best bet. also look at lower control arms with roll centre adjusters if ur wanting to go lower without disrupting the roll centre.

as far as bump steer, u can try adjustable tie rods, which change the height of where the rod attaches, this helps with bump steer on lowered cars.

kinda like this:

as far as JJR gear, i agree about keeping away with china, but at least it isnt in a structural position, there's not a lot u can do wrong with strut braces, the only real issue is weight, the cheaper stuff tends to weigh a bit more. but since its sprung weight, i dunno if its much of an issue. im sure sometimes there are fitment issues, but im sure JJR will refund u if there's an issue there.

i picked up my Cusco adjustable strut brace for $80 2nd hand, dont think u can really go wrong with that, if i was u id be looking for something 2nd hand.

[_Ryan_]

Stewy, that was my plan with the tie rods, but things are tight til the stagea sells, will look for some Cusco upper arms and strut braces as funds free up.

What height is recommended for handling and no bump steer without looking too ridiculous?

[battery]

whats the deal with swaybars? now as far as i know whiteline make two version's 24mm or 27mm.

what's the difference in thickness do?

[nisskid]

personally, i run around 340 all round, i think, i rarely measure, i usually go off eye which is a bit slack i know haha.

i know people generally reccomend more height at the front, but i've found if anything a bit rake forwards helps with my car's balance. even if it does make the car look a bit goofy.

i havnt had much of a chance to measure bump steer yet, that's something gary could help u a lot more with as i simply dont have the resources. i'm running both whiteline traction and camber arms, i run the traction arms roughly the same length in the turnbuckle as the camber arms and pray it's close lol.

one day ill buy a bump steer gauge when i have the $$

[nisskid]

whats the deal with swaybars? now as far as i know whiteline make two version's 24mm or 27mm.

what's the difference in thickness do?

it gives you more anti-roll.

the car will roll less, but you do increase the issue of inside wheel lift.

[3LGODZILA]

the mount swap was gonna cost roughly $150 for the 2 if i remember right, the GTR hubs cost roughly $150ea from a wrecker, depending. But the GTR hubs weigh roughly 2.5kg less each, that's a bit drop in unsprung weight, one which would cost u thousands in lightweight wheels.

can i do something similar with an r33 gts-t? its dead stock in the handling department and just wondering if i can lower my unsprung weight on a budget. im getting wheels soon but thats a few grand.

[nisskid]

i'd be focusing on other things first tbh, unsprung weight helps, but for $300 ud be better off saving an extra $150ish and spending ur money on adjustable sway bars. they will make a much bigger difference.

[R32Abuser]

Anti Roll bars increase your vehicles roll stiffness at either axle. The essentially provides a greater resistance to the rolling moment caused by cornering.

An ARB provides a solid link between each corner of your car on a particular axle, upon which when there is a difference in wheel travel between left and right wheels, the ARB is twisted and provides this resistance. When both wheels travel up or down (bump or droop) equally, the ARB simply rotates in its mount and provides no resistance.

The advantage of the ARB is that when the vehicle is in roll, the ARB can be used to resist this roll and thus allow less lateral load transfer (LLT) between two tyres on the same axle. This allows the tyres on the same axle to generate a higher amount of lateral force due to the vertical load upon the tyre being more evenly distributed across both the tyres of a given axle, than if a higher amount of LLT were to occur.

The disadvantage of the ARB is that the independent suspension on our cars (skylines) now effectively is joined by a link and no longer completely independent. This means that when one wheel travels into bump (think driving over a pothole with one wheel!) the ARB will provide resistance to this movement and potentially cause the car to "dart" across the road surface following the road imperfections (To para-phrase Carrol Smith). The stiffer (larger diameter) the ARB, the greater this effect will be.

With a correctly designed/combined spring-dampener and ARB system on either axle, the vehicle can handle without this darting or doglegging type effect. I have the standard Sydneykid Setup on my R32, and its perfectly fine for street. Only thing i plan on changing would be the valving in the shocks, and the springs to a slightly stiffer spring. But that is a long way off yet.

Edited June 25, 2009 by R32Abuser

[nisskid]

for the road, i reckon the 325/225lb/in springs on the standard shocks works ok, even if slightly underdamped, i can tell u when i redamped my rear shocks, the ride comfort died a lot, and the grip wasnt improved much at all, it certainly made it a bit harder to put the power down out of corners due to the resistance to sqaut.

for a daily that doesnt see much track, i probably wouldnt reccomend it, however as a track car which see's road use as well, i wasnt overly fussed and the new shocks were well worth it.

at the same time, you probably dont want an underdamped setup either, so the 325/225lb/in setup on the standard B6's isnt ideal either. id maybe be going a 200/275lb/in setup on the standard B6's.

[_Ryan_]

update;

Parts fitted:

Front whiteline camber kit, Kazama castor rods, rear cusco camber arms, alloy subframe bushes, tein mono flex 8/6, 2way LSD, 17x9 wearing 235/35/17 KU36, No power steering.

Running 345mm Front height, 335mm rear height,

Front alignment:

Castor 6deg each side

Toe out 2mm total

-2deg camber each side

Rear:

1mm toe in total

-1mm camber each side.

since the height change and alignment it is like a new car, no more bump steer, turn in and mid corner feel is very good, the kumho KU36 are decent for a street tyre for the money, can get power down on exit even with the 2way.

prior to the height change was 320/280, was the lowest monoflex could go, felt like shit.

[_Ryan_]

update;

Parts fitted:

Front whiteline camber kit, Kazama castor rods, rear cusco camber arms, alloy subframe bushes, tein mono flex 8/6, 2way LSD, 17x9 wearing 235/35/17 KU36, No power steering.

Running 345mm Front height, 335mm rear height,

Front alignment:

Castor 6deg each side

Toe out 2mm total

-2deg camber each side

Rear:

1mm toe in total

-1mm camber each side.

since the height change and alignment it is like a new car, no more bump steer, turn in and mid corner feel is very good, the kumho KU36 are decent for a street tyre for the money, can get power down on exit even with the 2way.

prior to the height change was 320/280, was the lowest monoflex could go, felt like shit.