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Air Conditioning - Regassing

Sarumatix

By Sarumatix,
in Victoria

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Sarumatix Veteran

Sarumatix

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Looking an R32 regassed as it appears the AC works but not very well (although the same is true of the heat -.-). I have never done this before so i'm wondering if it's a pretty simple process that could get done by a local mechanic (who recently started advertising that they regas) or if it's better to go to an AC specialist etc.

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RBPOWA-(TJ) Grand Master

RBPOWA-(TJ)

Posted
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popes road keysborough.

There is a place i got mine done for $80 :D took him 15mins and i was on my way, very nice and cold.

Haven't got the shop name but it you do a google map's street view you'll find it.

Two shops down from PJ PANEL'S away from the eastlink!

Bozz Proficient

Bozz

Posted
Posted (edited)
HyChill sounds great but it seems difficult to get?

I bought it from Bursons (I think) a while back. Its pretty much 33% butane 67% propane (so its flammable) to match the weight, boiling and condensation points/pressures of R12. Unlike the non combustible CFC and HCFC based R12/R22 and R134a/R410, the hydrocarbon based HyChill gasses aren't regulated and you can buy them with the same legality as buying LPG. People even use LPG for refrigerants (google it) however LPG may contain moisture and any moisture in the refrigeration system will react with leftover R12 in the oil of the compressor and form acids, destroying the compressor. If you're DIYing, always install a new receiver/dryer. LPG is also an unknown mix of propane and/or butane so if the quantities are different, air con performance will suffer.

It makes some sense to not go playing bumper cars afterwards :banana:

Bought the fittings and gauges on egay from the US and did it myself.

Edited by Bozz
Bozz Proficient

Bozz

Posted
Posted
Go to a A/C specialist...

This thread is also of interest

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ai...&hl=hychill

Wow, what a thread, excellent advice in there!

Good on him for promoting his products, its rare someone from a company that does sell a genuinely better product than the larger multinationals comes and explains how things really work.

kizzza Collaborator

kizzza

Posted
Posted
I got mine done by Norm and Norm's Auto Air in Ringwood just near Car City.

He stayed open for me late so I could pop by after work. 10 mins and I was on my way!

Nice bloke too!

Our work does A/C :banana:

but yes we deal with Norm alot and he's a top bloke to deal with! definately recommend him...knows his stuff...and is a A/C specialist

R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted
Wow, what a thread, excellent advice in there!

Good on him for promoting his products, its rare someone from a company that does sell a genuinely better product than the larger multinationals comes and explains how things really work.

Yep - lots of good info came out.

I'm still yet to "get to a point" to regas my own system lol...

So if/when/1000 years from now - i will go the HyChill route for sure as HR31 A/C is average to begin with, anything that helps is a godsend!

joeyg23 Contributor

joeyg23

Posted
Posted
 LPG is also an unknown mix of propane and/or butane so if the quantities are different, air con performance will suffer.

I think you mean Universal LPG is any blend of Propane and Butane. LPG is just pure Propane.

Sarumatix Veteran

Sarumatix

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  • Author
Posted

Well I spent a lot of time talking to a rep from HiChill yesterday which was fascinating. Basically Bozz is on the money about the deal. HiChill is simply a mix of iso-propane and butane (called hichill -30). You can buy it off the shelf from R&E parts in Glen Waverley - aristoc road. The mechanic next door is going to put it in my 94 gts-t which is currently running R134a, all that is involved is a flush (most importantly to remove lubricant which converts to acid in the presence of moisture) and new receiver/dryer which I have been advised is recommended for any re-gas anyway (if you like doing things properly). It is flammable but there appears to be a lot of misinformation about this and the relevance of the flammability of less than 300gs of butane, when you consider you have 50L of petrol or LPG anyway :(.

If you have an early model R32 which is installed with R12 then usually it's as simple as removing old gas and installing hichill. R12 doesn't use the nasty lubricant and hence a flush isn't required. I called around a few places and prices are generally around 60-80 for a straight re-gas and 200-300 for a flush and new dryer.

Bozz Proficient

Bozz

Posted
Posted
Also Bozz I am interested in how you went about DIY :( you should post an article up about it because i'm sure a few people are interested.

A previous car had an air con leak so after paying $100 to have it recharged, filled with dye and tested, it'd fail again within a month. They never found the leak so I got pissed off and googled how car AC works, found the LPG method.

After you know the theory, if you have the correct gauges (i bought a set similar to this) and estimated the amount of propane and butane going in from a BBQ bottle and portable propane can. I had to tip both upside down when I opened the taps to ensure the liquid entered the refrigeration system instead of vapour and I got the AC working quite well. For a while I just kept topping it up.

The disclaimer - it's very dangerous to overfill because if liquid returns to the compressor, it can destroy it. I'll try a quick explanation but you're better off googling it because I could be wrong - I haven't had to use it for years.

The compressor compresses the refrigerant, this converts it from a gas into a liquid which makes it get hot. The refrigerant goes through the condensor at the front of the car, the air passing through the fins removes the heat in the same way the radiator works, then it goes into the cabin of the car and passes through a tiny orifice called the TX valve. The TX valve only allows a tiny bit of refrigerant through which means there's a very low pressure in the evaporator. The low pressure causes the refrigerant to boil and become a gas. This makes it get very cold, the blower fan blows air through the evaporators fins and it cools the air. The outlet of the evaporator returns to the compressor to repeat the whole cycle. I've left out the low/high pressure switch, thermostat, ECU control of AC, filter/dryer and other bits here, we're not that worried about them right now.

The danger is if you overfill the system with too much refrigerant, it wont completely evaporate by the time it returns to the compressor. Compressors dont like compressing liquid so they self destruct. Without knowing the pressure, temperature and condensation/evaporation points of the particular refrigerant in the system, you can't get it right and its dangerous to get it wrong.

On that note, everyone warned me against it and I got it right so who knows.... If you're adding refrigerant to the low side while the AC is running, do it bloodly slowly or you will get droplets of liquid into the compressor. I took my time and it worked.

I dont really want to write a DIY because it is so easy to destroy it by getting it wrong however there's heaps of info on the net if you could be bothered researching it, thats how I learned.

Cheers

Bozz Proficient

Bozz

Posted
Posted

Another note - since I had the leak in my system, I had trouble keeping it running right and it took me ages to find out why - because I had both propane and butane in there, propane boils at about -42 degrees and butane about -0.2 celcius. This means at different times, more of one gas leaks out than the other, since I kept topping up similar ratios, AC performance went down the pooper.

I eventually ended up giving it a topup of propane and every second time a tiny bit of butane iwth the propane to keep it running. I never had exact levels correct, I was playing the close enough is good enough game....

Sarumatix Veteran

Sarumatix

Posted
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Posted

Thanks Bozz, the mechanic I spoke to wasn't happy about putting HC into a system designed for 134A is the compression issue the likely reason why? Or does 134a have exactly the same problem?

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