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Deca Wrap Up - Saturday 5th June 2010

ashneel

By ashneel,
in Victoria

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scotty014 Veteran

scotty014

Posted
Posted
http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/heel-toe-shifting.htm

By double clutch heel toe you're basically matching the layshaft AND the engine to the speed of the lower gear. It's different for every car depending on your gear ratios, so you just gotta practise.

If you dont' double clutch, and ONLY heel toe then you're only matching the speed of the engine which avoids the jerkiness but still beats up on the synchros.

thanks for that, i definately understand it now :P

Birds Grand Master

Birds

Posted
Posted
http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/heel-toe-shifting.htm

By double clutch heel toe you're basically matching the layshaft AND the engine to the speed of the lower gear. It's different for every car depending on your gear ratios, so you just gotta practise.

If you dont' double clutch, and ONLY heel toe then you're only matching the speed of the engine which avoids the jerkiness but still beats up on the synchros.

Exactamundo!

Back in the day gearboxes had no synchromesh (aka crunchboxes) and double clutching was necessary for downshifting. Be warned though, it puts alot more stress on the clutch and thrust bearing.

joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo Grand Master

joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo

Posted
Posted

An easy way to learn to rev match is to simply blip the throttle on downshifts... Do this when not even worrying about the brakes... Each time give it a little more until you feel a smooth transition when you jump off the clutch... This is the sweet spot :P

KezR33 Veteran

KezR33

Posted
Posted

Where do we put feedback or suggestions for events like this? Just in here?

I was thinking about DECA today and had a couple of ideas. First of all I understand the cones on the wangs are to slow drivers down before dangerous points, but maybe move the second chicane on the long wang (when going clockwise) down closer to the basketball court? It was easy to carry a lot of speed into that corner, and it was quite slippery with all the gravel there. I saw a couple of others spin out there, myself included. The first time into there I locked the brakes up too, I had plenty of time to stop but it really is quite a high-speed and sudden turn and for inexperienced drivers like myself it was unexpected and I didn't know how to handle it. The fact you have a group of people standing there at the end makes it slightly more dangerous too.

Granted, when I spun out I stayed on the track and was laughing the entire time, so maybe the danger isn't as bad as I thought (you more experienced drivers will no doubt know what errors can be made there, which way the car will go and damage that could be done).

The other suggestion is bring back battles! I understand its difficult within our time frame, but what if the second battle layout was shorter and your second run on that layout was the beginning of the battle. So by the time everyone has done their second run, half the cars are already knocked out. I just remember my first Deca when Clive and Leon battled, it was a great way to end the day and gets everyone involved.

Anyway, those are my ideas, and thanks again for another great day at DECA.

Russman Grand Master

Russman

Posted
Posted

You're talking about the knockout battles right?

They were good and a lot of fun but the formula we have now works well for the amount of track time.

As for the long wang, I think it's fine.

The fastest cars there still pulled it up even on the uneven surface so I don't think it's an issue unless people are over driving on not allowing for the surface change.

Really... the indian file is to learn the lay out. 80% run is to learn braking points and what gear to be in etc.

KezR33 Veteran

KezR33

Posted
Posted

Fair enough. I was just pointing the potential dangers out from a novice's point of view, and lets face it, DECA has more than a few rookies. I don't by any means want to make the track less enjoyable for experienced drivers.

Gazelle D Community Regular

Gazelle D

Posted
Posted
just download a free xls viewer

like this one

If you require more than a free viewer in future, and don't want to pay for a licence, openoffice.org is opensource and does the job...

thanks guys i searched and downloaded one after i posted, because i thought there would be another option for people with fresh windows 7 installs....

p.s no blu ray support with windows 7......boo to that too espicially when 2 of my pc's have blu. yay for 3rd party software

limpus Mentor

limpus

Posted
Posted
Fair enough. I was just pointing the potential dangers out from a novice's point of view, and lets face it, DECA has more than a few rookies. I don't by any means want to make the track less enjoyable for experienced drivers.

Kieran...i understand your concerns...but the way the wangs are set up at the moment are still ok...as mentioned...the 80% run is there for one to pick their braking points and get their lines right...a track is always going to be slightly dangerous...its also up to a driver to drive within their limits...if one pushes past their limits then no amount of chicanes is going to help...a novice should never be pushing past their limits on the wangs anyway...

xrotor Collaborator

xrotor

Posted
Posted
yay i wasnt last hahahahaahaha although i was expecting it.

Thats a bit harsh to the guy who came last!

Ohh hang on that was me :P .

Kilsyth is not the place to get a gearbox, unless you want it to last 2 days?

OS GIKEN will be in for the next one :(

Birds Grand Master

Birds

Posted
Posted

DECA is not the place to run-in a freshly reconditioned gearbox, unless you want it to last 2 days and find out you voided the warranty in several ways / lied about the use of said gearbox during your warranty claim :)

Belsil80 Mentor

Belsil80

Posted
Posted
PS...agree with ryan's signature...Motorsport Cheating: ASM, TRC, ABS. And 4wd ;) and SAYC...lol...

GTR's simply rock on the skid pan. all the advantages of a RWD with the ability to haul out of turns... hence why 90% of Decas have been won by them.

p.s. has anyone who cancelled organised their refund yet? I can't seem to find an answer to my earlier post in this thread, nor PMs :)

They will be done this week mate.

Where do we put feedback or suggestions for events like this? Just in here?

I was thinking about DECA today and had a couple of ideas. First of all I understand the cones on the wangs are to slow drivers down before dangerous points, but maybe move the second chicane on the long wang (when going clockwise) down closer to the basketball court? It was easy to carry a lot of speed into that corner, and it was quite slippery with all the gravel there. I saw a couple of others spin out there, myself included. The first time into there I locked the brakes up too, I had plenty of time to stop but it really is quite a high-speed and sudden turn and for inexperienced drivers like myself it was unexpected and I didn't know how to handle it. The fact you have a group of people standing there at the end makes it slightly more dangerous too.

Granted, when I spun out I stayed on the track and was laughing the entire time, so maybe the danger isn't as bad as I thought (you more experienced drivers will no doubt know what errors can be made there, which way the car will go and damage that could be done).

The other suggestion is bring back battles! I understand its difficult within our time frame, but what if the second battle layout was shorter and your second run on that layout was the beginning of the battle. So by the time everyone has done their second run, half the cars are already knocked out. I just remember my first Deca when Clive and Leon battled, it was a great way to end the day and gets everyone involved.

Anyway, those are my ideas, and thanks again for another great day at DECA.

Its good to get opinions and ideas like this. The back track 'bus stop' or 'chicane' or what ever people want to call it is in the safest position possible, short of having a second one futher up. The chicane is where it is because there is an almighty big tree half way up that straight and we wanted people to be driving slow and straight past it. if it were further up the straight you would be passing the tree at a rediculous speed and also braking and turning at the same time. The braking point into the basketball court is a challenging stop because of all the patchwork on the track but it also teaches you a lot about braking. As i think Rusty said, you have to make the most of the indian file and 80% runs. you need to pick your braking points and get the feel.

As for the knockout battle at the end we get mixed reactions when we run it. the crowd and the semi competitive cars like it, but those who get knocked out first round arent a fan as they only get one run... in saying that it will most likely be at the next deca ;)

Here is some incar from the weekend anyway:

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Birds Grand Master

Birds

Posted
Posted
Its good to get opinions and ideas like this. The back track 'bus stop' or 'chicane' or what ever people want to call it is in the safest position possible, short of having a second one futher up. The chicane is where it is because there is an almighty big tree half way up that straight and we wanted people to be driving slow and straight past it. if it were further up the straight you would be passing the tree at a rediculous speed and also braking and turning at the same time. The braking point into the basketball court is a challenging stop because of all the patchwork on the track but it also teaches you a lot about braking. As i think Rusty said, you have to make the most of the indian file and 80% runs. you need to pick your braking points and get the feel.

As for the knockout battle at the end we get mixed reactions when we run it. the crowd and the semi competitive cars like it, but those who get knocked out first round arent a fan as they only get one run... in saying that it will most likely be at the next deca :)

I really dug the chicane setups. They were positioned very well and good for heel and toes into 2nd gear for an awesome kick out on exit. Also felt very safe with this Wang layout, like the worst that could have happened is my bumper eaten some grass - as opposed to previous DECAs where there are rails or poles to worry about.

And that entrance to the basketball court was a good lesson in braking / entry speed, I know I overshot it a couple of times and almost ate grass. The rocky concrete and bits of gravel made it tricky to keep traction too.

Knockout does suck when u get knocked out on the first run...but even then it's good to have a tangible competition between everyone, gets the crowd interested in the action that's for sure.

phunky_monkey Grand Master

phunky_monkey

Posted
Posted

Nice vids Ryan! Go the 180 :)

As for feedback on the day, I loved it all and think it was one of the most fun DECA's I've been to. The only suggestion I would make is that the last chicane on the Wizards Sleeve run should maybe have been a bit tighter to bring the speeds down a bit with the novices on track. People should always drive within their limits, but that was quite a quick end to that run (fun as it was!). I also think dropping off the roundabout start for the mini was probably a wise move too.

I think the day was really well organised, with a good mix of maps to suit different cars.

Russman Grand Master

Russman

Posted
Posted
I really dug the chicane setups. They were positioned very well and good for heel and toes into 2nd gear for an awesome kick out on exit.

Are you for real... We've had enough discussion about heal + toe..... :)

KezR33 Veteran

KezR33

Posted
Posted
As for the knockout battle at the end we get mixed reactions when we run it. the crowd and the semi competitive cars like it, but those who get knocked out first round arent a fan as they only get one run... in saying that it will most likely be at the next deca :)

You get two runs on the second layout anyway without the knockout battles, and cars should try and pick drivers/cars that are similar in speed and skill. I felt it was a climatic ending to a great day, and gets everyone involved, whether driving or just spectating.

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