Return Flow Coolers

[Harey]

Could be a positive that the issue started when the car wasnt being driven hard, if somethings gone maybe it hasnt had a chance to do much damage.

Go for a highish comp 3.0 that will be super responsive and wont need lots of boost and the small turbo should be fine.

[mystery_kid]

wouldn't bother, your car is a skyline. If you're going to get defected the fact your intercooler pipe goes a different way won't mean shit

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

it means that you won't get done for a VASS

[Harey]

It may as well be a different country as the vehicle legalities between QLD and VIC are completely different.

This is one of the things that cops will pick on and can mean the difference between being on your way and a defect which could find more things. And even possibly the deadly VASS!!

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

yeh, it's possible to get a defect, EPA and VASS in the same adventure which would mean a HELL of a lot of tears, sweat and $

[mystery_kid]

sux2binvic

[wolverine]

Could be a positive that the issue started when the car wasnt being driven hard, if somethings gone maybe it hasnt had a chance to do much damage.

Go for a highish comp 3.0 that will be super responsive and wont need lots of boost and the small turbo should be fine.

Why highish comp?

I would have thought a 2835ProS will spool up happily regardless.

A stock 30 bottom end would be cheap and do the job by my internet/keyboard warrior reckoning.

[hypergear]

There are 2x types of return flow coolers. One has massive end tanks with the core sitting vertically while the other type has 2x small end tanks one side and 1x large end tank on another with the core sitting horizontally.

I would recommend the 2nd type which is 2x smaller coolers joint together giving greater overall length. In theory is more efficient in heat lose.

[R31Nismoid]

The twin entry, single exit, is a silly idea.

It just makes piping a nightmare and offers no real gains

[Harey]

Why highish comp?

I would have thought a 2835ProS will spool up happily regardless.

A stock 30 bottom end would be cheap and do the job by my internet/keyboard warrior reckoning.

Highish comp as then less boost pressure and airflow is required to make nice power and it will be more responsive off boost. Same as how low compression requires more boost pressure and quite often a larger turbo to make the same power.

The 2835 Pro S will spool up fine as is but why not make it better if only 300rwkw is the goal.

I agree a stock 30 bottom would be fine but I dont think joey will be using a stock engine and if hes building you may as well build it the way you want it.

My mate had a turbocharged V6 with a 3082 turbo. With the factory engine of compression 9.2 the car was fantastic, super responsive and pulled very well, however when he blew the factory engine he rebuilt it for low compression ~8.5 and the car took longer to spool and lost some of its pull. It really needed a larger GT35 turbo to overcome the low compression and make good power but he got over spending money on it so left the GT30 on there. He would have been better off leaving the compression at 9.2 or even raising to say 9.5. It seems to be a good way to make good response and power with a smaller turbo.

[ARTZ]

yeh, it's possible to get a defect, EPA and VASS in the same adventure which would mean a HELL of a lot of tears, sweat and $

or f**k it gut it and track it...

Sorry to hear bout ya car Joe new slugs and a bearing kit she'll b right mate..Or yeah, Go crazy..

Hears a cool big end bearing story for ya..

Did it on the way homefrom a scoot down the franga freeway, driving home and she just goes clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk, makes it home where i parked it and fgured id deal with it in the morning.

So next morning a mate had dropped around to have a geezer at my busted vehicle..He was big into wearing white at the time too, white pants, white shoes, white shirt, bleached blonde hair, ya know how it is..

Anyways i pop the bonnet and hes looking as i cranked it went clunk clunk clunk again but not fire, so i tried again, next thing i see a fountain of oil and him stand up from looking under the bonnet dripped in oil from head to toe, I cracked up laughing of course..

Turns out a blockage somewhere (probably bits of bearing i guess) had split the filter open at the exact moment he stuck his head under there and spewed oil right into his face all over his nice whites and all over the road .

Edited January 5, 2011 by Arthur T3

[wolverine]

Highish comp as then less boost pressure and airflow is required to make nice power and it will be more responsive off boost. Same as how low compression requires more boost pressure and quite often a larger turbo to make the same power.

The 2835 Pro S will spool up fine as is but why not make it better if only 300rwkw is the goal.

I agree a stock 30 bottom would be fine but I dont think joey will be using a stock engine and if hes building you may as well build it the way you want it.

My mate had a turbocharged V6 with a 3082 turbo. With the factory engine of compression 9.2 the car was fantastic, super responsive and pulled very well, however when he blew the factory engine he rebuilt it for low compression ~8.5 and the car took longer to spool and lost some of its pull. It really needed a larger GT35 turbo to overcome the low compression and make good power but he got over spending money on it so left the GT30 on there. He would have been better off leaving the compression at 9.2 or even raising to say 9.5. It seems to be a good way to make good response and power with a smaller turbo.

Obviously a higher comp engine will be more responsive, never get an argument from me on that front. Price of using a stock 30 bottom end might be a reason to go this way, after all RIPS can't have it all wrong.

I would argue your friend needed a smaller turbo to make some airflow down low to compensate for the lower compression. Going to a larger turbo (albeit larger turbine in your example) surely would have made it doggier down low.

[ARTZ]

why is everyone pushing for another monster engine build when its all been done before, he has a near perfect setup already ,just needs a new bearing or something, id consider some better pistons maybe even consider some slightly racier cams but probably wouldnt bother,just fix whats broke and get back to driving it..

PS..return flows are pox, build something ridiculous like mine

Edited January 5, 2011 by Arthur T3

[discopotato03]

For the theorists there has only ever been two ways to increase an engines output without raising the state of tune , first is increased capacity and the second is higher compression ratio .

An RB30 is about 20% larger than an RB25 and the extra (in theory) 20% torque means you don't have to lean on it as hard to make it go . It also means you can size your turbos slightly larger because you aren't lacking poke down low . I think this is why you used to see twin cam RB30s with a GT3582R and the largest 1.06 turbine housing on them . The higher compression ment more torque down low and the turbo wanted to go in the low 3000s engine rev range . I remember reading about people having high comp RB30s in Skylines and going most places effortlessly in 4th or 5th gear , floating along the expressways using little to no boost on the hills . Generally high compression ratios have always meant better part throttle torque and its why some later NA cars are getting up there . In a part throttle state there is limited cylinder filling because the throttle/s are limiting airflow . What the cylinders do get is compressed into a smaller clearance volume creating greater dynamic compression and in theory higher combustion pressure .

No doubt some of this effortless running would have been because Skylines are geared for 2/2.5L engines and would have surely had taller diffs if RB30 had been a factory option . From memory VLs had 3.45 diffs and seemed to pull them ok in admittedly a lighter car than an R33 or R34 RWD .

A .

[Harey]

why is everyone pushing for another monster engine build when its all been done before, he has a near perfect setup already ,just needs a new bearing or something, id consider some better pistons maybe even consider some slightly racier cams but probably wouldnt bother,just fix whats broke and get back to driving it..

PS..return flows are pox, build something ridiculous like mine

From what I remember joeyjoey is pushing the RB30, a few other people have said why not just fix whats broken. I am just going along with what the owner is saying.

[Harey]

Obviously a higher comp engine will be more responsive, never get an argument from me on that front. Price of using a stock 30 bottom end might be a reason to go this way, after all RIPS can't have it all wrong.

I would argue your friend needed a smaller turbo to make some airflow down low to compensate for the lower compression. Going to a larger turbo (albeit larger turbine in your example) surely would have made it doggier down low.

Yeah I didnt quite get my thoughts into words very well. The lower compression with the same turbo will have worse response and worse power everywhere on the same boost level. The only advantage of lower compression is if you are going to run huge boost with a big turbo or if the only fuel available is poor. If the max power desired is not huge then higher compression will have better response and require less boost, especially if using E85.

Let me get this straight I think the stock 30 bottom end from RIPS is sensational and would be excellent. If joeyjoey chooses to not buy a short block and instead gets someone to build him an engine then surely choosing a slightly different piston/rod combo would not be much (if any) more expensive. All I am doing is throwing around some ideas. Thanks for the theory disco, helps back my ramblings.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

An RB30 is about 20% larger than an RB25 and the extra (in theory) 20% torque means you don't have to lean on it as hard to make it go .

this

I remember reading about people having high comp RB30s in Skylines and going most places effortlessly in 4th or 5th gear , floating along the expressways using little to no boost on the hills .

when on cruises al's and i tend to msh the twisties at about the same speed... he is always on the CB (handsfree one) asking me what gear i'm in, and i'm always at least 1 gear and a couple thousand revs higher

Yeah I didnt quite get my thoughts into words very well. The lower compression with the same turbo will have worse response and worse power everywhere on the same boost level. The only advantage of lower compression is if you are going to run huge boost with a big turbo or if the only fuel available is poor. If the max power desired is not huge then higher compression will have better response and require less boost, especially if using E85.

Let me get this straight I think the stock 30 bottom end from RIPS is sensational and would be excellent. If joeyjoey chooses to not buy a short block and instead gets someone to build him an engine then surely choosing a slightly different piston/rod combo would not be much (if any) more expensive. All I am doing is throwing around some ideas. Thanks for the theory disco, helps back my ramblings.

i appreciate the thoughts guys as i'm still undecided as exactly where to go with this.... i just cant bear to spend a couple of thou to just be where i was before... i'd rather spend 4k and have "modification"

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

the rips stock bottom end is looking good as it's fair proven, however they are pretty exxy...

[Harey]

You looking at this:

RB30 Stock internal bottom ends, with RIPS modifications, fully refreshed NZD$3,500 rwd or $4,750 4wd including adapter plate kit (suit up to 600hp and 7200 rpm)

http://www.ripsltd.com/products.html

$3500NZD is roughly $2650AUD, so hopefully get it to Melbourne for $3k AUD. Then labour and tuning.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Yeh I forgot it was nzd... Looking at that or the whole 25/30 for ~ 3900 aud