Australia's Obsession With Falcodores.

[Cowboy1600]

Can someone please explain to me why the majority of Australian car enthusiasts love the Falcodore? I can see their value, so far as a cheap, reliable, local and easy maintained daily driver, but for anything else I can numerous other cars that do it better.

They perform terribly compared to other cars on the market, and whilst the upper models are somewhat luxurious, I would not call them prestigious. They're hardly unique, which is what many enthusiasts desire. Quite the opposite, most people who don't care for cars couldn't tell you the difference between a high model and a base model.

Can someone please enlighten me? Cheers.

I think the first problem in answering your question is pretty much everything you said is actually bullshit.

"They perform terribly compared to other cars on the market"

Bullshit. Dollar for dollar and when comparing them against compareable cars, they perform outstandingly. If you are going to compare them with cars 4 times their cost or compare them with cars built for very different reasons, then of course you will get differences. But compare Apples with Apples and the locally made big cars come out on par or on top.

Of course they are not prestigious. Your problem here is two-fold. First, they do not claim to be prestigious. Secondly, they do not cost the same as other more prestigious marques. They are comfortable and well built for the money. In fact HSVs and FPVs are as good as any European offering in my experience. The build quilty is on par and the materials are as good.

As for unique, nothing this side of a Lambo or Ferrari are unique. Go drive around any middle to upper class suburb and you'll see more Mercs and BMWs than any other brand. Everyone trying to be "unique" so they go and do waht everyone else does.

I consider myself as much as an enthusiast as anyone. I live and breath cars and bikes and have done for decades. I've owned all manner of cars and bikes, from KE30 Corollas to stinky hot Datsuns. I could not care any less for prestige. Seriously, it's impossible for me to give any less of a shit. I want speed, handling, performance, sound, smell - I want my sense to explde everytime I turn the key. What other people think of my ride could me no less relevant to what I want in a car or bike. If you do care, then good for you, but to assume that all car enthusiasts care what other people think is highly flawed. In fact, I'd say mroe often than not enthusiast are more like me than you. Sure, we like it when people like our stuff, but if you don't like it, tell someone who cares. It's not going to change how I think or what I feel about my car/bike.

And I reiterate, there is no prestige in the European competitors for a Falcadore. Anyone who thinks there is is foolding themselves. BMWs and Mercs are as common as muck.

Put a set of 18s on a 318i and most people couldn't tell the difference between that an an M3.

Falcons and Commodores are brilliant performers, are immensly practical, sound brilliant, are relatively cheap and relatively reliable (find a towie and ask him which marques are the most common to hitch a ride on his tilt tray and he'll probably tell you BMW followed by Mercs), look hot when dressed up right and are uniquely ours (aussie).

And the overriding assumption for this thread is, again, totally wrong. Australian's are not osessed with Falcadores. Just look at the sales figures. Take fleet purchases and government purchases out of the sales charts and Falcadores would struggle to make the top 30.

[BeastVS]

I beleive i am more than capable of joining this discussion as i have experienced both, I currently still own a V8 commodore and have driven a large amount from stock to well up over 500hp etc.

Without sounding Bias in anyway i will do my best to explain it.

Im a young Australian male (22) was born here blah blah, When driving the commodore there is something about the presence on the road. A feeling that you get when driving a car that not only is built for the Australian roads, But built for and by its people. By all means they are not what i would class a "great" car, Like all they have their flaws. But i honestly think that overall they are a pretty decent car, They have power when needed, Plenty of room, Cheap to fix, Cheap to Buy, They have a pretty good safety rating(Important for families). And if you are smart you can make them go pretty well for not a lot of money.

I am not what you would call a bogan, I earn a fair wack of money for my age, I work hard and do not expect hand outs, I am educated etc.

In all honesty you cant really compare Japanese/European/Domestic cars, They all have pro's and con's in different area's. The old Apples to oranges line is actually true.

[VNS 24]

I don't own either Ford or Holden, but have driven work cars like Ford Territory, Falcons and Focus (You can see my work people prefer Ford. ).

Anyhow, I do like them as a car. A bogan can drive a Nissan as well, not just Ford or Holden. Therefore, it's just down to the individual's taste in these cars (looks, performance, cheap to maintain, good all-rounder, etc.).

[Mayuri Krab]

The problem I have with Falcodores is they seem very cheap on the inside, in my opinion they just aren't a very nice place to sit. To compare my '98 R34 GT-T and my '01 Legnum VR-4 to a similar year SS/XR8 there is just no comparison, the jap car is a million times nicer place to be.

Comparing the inside of the 91 VN commodore (was a crap base model too) I used to drive on my Ls & my current 1993 R33 I found them to be pretty much the same shit.

All black plastic & greyish cloth, Not that I care much about it. The 33 has a climate control A/C unit but thats about it & IMO I prefer the old manual A/C control units since there are less sensors so less stuff to break.

All these current semi/luxury cars with their million electronic gadgets & butt massagers & auto everything don't appeal to me, just like the current trend of smart phones with 1 billion sensors in them have no appeal for me neither (still using my cheapo China phone ).

The only creature comfort thing I want in a car are Air-con & a mp3 stereo (if this was 5 years ago I would have just said tape deck).

Similarly the only "power" features I want in a car are power steering, power brakes & power windows.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Mayuri Krab

[Imtooslow]

Second hand they are pretty good value. Wouldnt buy one new thats for sure. In terms of why people prefer "falcodores" to others, why not try asking yourself why you prefer your current car, be it a skyline or whatever, to others. If you go to any other car enthusiast forum they, or the vast majority, will give you reasons as to why their car is better than others. Its a matter of personal preference and needs at the end of the day.

[typevu]

The only creature comfort thing I want in a car are Air-con & a mp3 stereo (if this was 5 years ago I would have just said tape deck).

Similarly the only "power" features I want in a car are power steering, power brakes & power windows.

weakkkkkkkkkkk

[God_speed]

Good value for what you get, and towing capability.

The Large car segment is a dying market anyway, as people downsize or move to "soft roaders"

[Mayuri Krab]

weakkkkkkkkkkk

I thought those 1st 2 "power" features are not necessary until I drove a borrowed 80s blue bird and what a pain in the ass trying to steer in the shopping center that was...

The Large car segment is a dying market anyway, as people downsize or move to "soft roaders"

Hence the raise in soccer mum urban tank mobiles...

[mad082]

You can tow with a falcadore. Couldnt' live without a small trailer to move around stuff.

i tow a trailer behind the missus SSS pulsar. tows my 3.6m boat just fine too. will sit on 120kmh easily (and still get better than 10L/100km fuel economy) and up hills i only have to drop down to 4th to stay on 100kmh (3rd if it's a really steep hill where i would have to drop down to 4th without the trailer).

but that said, if i was a P plater i'd be looking at a commodore or falcon (or even magna) over a natro skyline. a stock auto falcon or commodore will beat a stock manual skyline and a manual falcon/commodore/magna will really beat it (3.5L manual magna will do the 1/4 mile in high 14 seconds, which will keep up with, or beat a stock gts-t).

as for interior wise, i agree with all the people who said they are a much better place to be on a long trip. i'm tall so the reach adjustable steering really helps me be able to get the seat back far enough to not be in pain after a few hours. i find the seats more comfortable and the interiours don't look that bad to me. the suspension is better for the shit aussie roads. i currently drive the missus pulsar to work every day (50 minute trip from gympie to noosa each way) and i'm looking at getting a cheap vt or vx commodore to drive. fuel economy won't be that much worse (will still do under 10L/100kms on the highway) and it's going to be much nicer to sit in as well as being better for overtaking. also i know that even if i only pay 4 or 5k for one i know that even though it may have over 200,000kms on the clock it will still keep going for ages. also servicing/repair costs will be cheaper, and to be honest, i honestly don't care if i maintain it properly because i know that it doesn't really matter because they are detuned to take into account the laziness of most aussies when it comes to servicing. and if something breaks, unless it makes the car not run (or makes an annoying rattle, etc) i won't bother replacing it because i don't care, lol. when i had my r33 everytime you drove it you'd be listening out for any little noise that sounded wrong, or any little vibration that felt wrong, so very rarely could you actually enjoy the car. when i had my commodore, falcon or magnas i'd just hop in, drive/thrash them to my destination, hop out and walk away without a care in the world.

plenty of people bag them out without having driven them. if you hop out of a skyline or a little 4 cylinder into a commodore or falcon you will be immensly impressed with the amount of power they have at 1500rpm, even taking into account how tall the gearing is (1st gear in an auto aussie 6/8 is pretty close to 2nd gear in a manual skyline).

also if you have family then very few imports will give you the space for the money. i'm 6'3 and in the back seat of a lancer (using that as an example because someone earlier mentioned evo's) my head touches the back window and my legs have to be removed and stored in the boot, lol (not to mention that half the japanese seats feel like park benches with 5mm of foam put on them).

i like imports. i like big aussie cars. i like them both for different reasons.

[sneakey pete]

i tow a trailer behind the missus SSS pulsar. tows my 3.6m boat just fine too. will sit on 120kmh easily (and still get better than 10L/100km fuel economy) and up hills i only have to drop down to 4th to stay on 100kmh (3rd if it's a really steep hill where i would have to drop down to 4th without the trailer).

Truth be told we tow stuff aroudn with the parents corolla. I was thinking of bigger things when i said that, but i didn't word it as such.

[boiracer]

my mum has a V8 stato.......and other than the fact it sits on the highway with cruise control on farting along at 1400rpm comfortably.... it blows. no feeling in the wheel, pedals, and those auto boxes.....omg rubbish. im sure the manuals are better and the commo a bit sportier...but all in all to fat for my likings.

having said that, i can def understand why we buy them, acceptance, grunt, RWD (godlyness) and price. not to mention horrible deprecation in the early yrs which makes them affordable and easily crashable by noobs and cool kids alike.

but as common as peeps seem to think liners are...its nothing compared to the number of commordoors i see everyday trying to race me....

Falcons a bit less common....but knowing 2 peeps now that have had their 90k (at the time) GT-P's spit their engines with around 100 thou on the clock makes me very certain i never want one. not to mention the stratospheric wieght of any falcon atm

[alr33x]

i doubt holdens/fords depreciate any more than any other car, in fact i dare say the drop to a point and hold fairly well ever tried shifting a "luxury" car 3 years after buying it.. be ready for a bath and a half not to mention the additional costs incurred with servicing/parts etc

[boiracer]

true i guess. but only the V8's hold for a while tho.

mind you, everything you say there about "luxury" cars is what is said on comondoor forums as an excuse not to buy a skyline.

Edited March 3, 2011 by boiracer

[Cowboy1600]

i doubt holdens/fords depreciate any more than any other car, in fact i dare say the drop to a point and hold fairly well ever tried shifting a "luxury" car 3 years after buying it.. be ready for a bath and a half not to mention the additional costs incurred with servicing/parts etc

So very true.

As for things like "but knowing 2 peeps now that have had their 90k (at the time) GT-P's spit their engines with around 100 thou on the clock" I will bet my left nut those cars were abused to all hell.

Engines, irrespective of which company they come from, don't just "spit". Occasionally their are problems, ie. the first Gen III's, but more often than not it's only flat out abuse which causes catastrophic failure.

And or everyone that goes pop, there are 999 which have had zero issues.

[boiracer]

So very true.

As for things like "but knowing 2 peeps now that have had their 90k (at the time) GT-P's spit their engines with around 100 thou on the clock" I will bet my left nut those cars were abused to all hell.

Engines, irrespective of which company they come from, don't just "spit". Occasionally their are problems, ie. the first Gen III's, but more often than not it's only flat out abuse which causes catastrophic failure.

And or everyone that goes pop, there are 999 which have had zero issues.

actually 1 was well respected and very well loved...the thing was his life (still is, just getting it rebuilt). the second im not sure on. and yes sure its a 1-2 in a thousand occurrence...im not saying otherwise. but to see 2 myself......that's good enough for me. V8's are supposed to be effortless reliability, that's why most people i know that have them, buy them at all. there used to be a running joke that an old Holden V8 isn't run in till it hits 300 tho, and if you did buy one with more it wasn't an issue.

and i think you'll find they can just "spit" or have major issues that require engine replacement/rebuild inside warranty, esp if its the first series of some new engines that has had an unforeseen issue (ref: first run of VT LS1's and their piston slap)....and before you say it...i know the LS1 has been around for donkeys years before hand...so why did Holden think they could fix it??

so when will you be delivering me your left nut??? oh and why shouldn't you be able to give a very expensive falcon some hell??? i thought that's the point.

[mad082]

the LS1 engines holden used were detuned compared to the US versions, that why they had issues. they weren't a true chev spec engine.

and while on the subject of expensive cars with engine problems, we all know that the r35 never has any engine or gearbox issues and the earlier, equally expensive GTR's never had any issues with oil starvation, etc.

lets put it this way, would you rather buy a v8 commodore/falcon with 300,000kms on the clock, or turbo with 300,000kms on the clock (both original engines, gearboxes, etc)? i'd sure as hell take the v8 because you know that even if it has had a somewhat hard life you'll still get a few years out of it without needing a rebuild, while the import probably already needs it.

[boiracer]

none of the above unless its an old kingsy or similar...thats my point

[Mayuri Krab]

the LS1 engines holden used were detuned compared to the US versions, that why they had issues. they weren't a true chev spec engine.

I should tell that to the next bogan I see with another chevy badge on their commodore...

[boiracer]

lol at chev badges....ima go get a datto badge for my liner tomorrow

[GTRPowa]

You always think you've been in the best, until you sit in something better.

My friend thought he was cool with his VK, then he got a a VL, then a VN, wow 3.8!!!1 - Then a VR oh hell!! The whole time he verbally shat on any import. Calling GTR's and JZA80's 'rice'

He now owns a JZA80 2J, and thinks all commodores and GTR's are shit. (Still hasn't even been in a GTR.)

Like sands in the hourglass.