Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Damn good news and horrible news.

First the good news, got the car to almost start today. It tried to start for a second then just died off.

Now for the horrible news, with the rail out noticed fuel was still getting on the plugs so cranked car with plugs out and heaps of fuel came from cylinder four. All the other holes had spark plugs in them. So decided to check the rest of plugs and what do you know they were covered in fuel also.For the hell of it I decided to check my oil dipstick and guess what, it was covered in fuel, so much that no oil was even present on the stick.

I just had the engine rebuilt and like I said it started and idled fine every time I started it. Didn't have a dump pipe installed so only idled the car and drove it probably a total of 2 miles. This starting problem just occurred over the past week. Oh I also noticed that the pressure in the fuel rail does not stay there as soon as it is primed and the pump stops the pressure falls off.

What do you guys think is the problem? Please, please, please for god sake do not say rings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Daboss
  • Replies 62
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

FPR not responding to vacuum, so not turning 'off'??? And how could that much fuel get into the motor though? The tank is below the fuel rail so it shouldn't fill except with what is in the fuel rail and regulator etc and that is not that much - not enough to flood all your cylinders. It can't siphon from the tank unless its on a good hill slope.

And I can't see how you think having fuel everywhere is rings?

Why would you want to start and idle a rebuilt brand new engine - couldn't think of anything worse to bed the rings in!!

FPR not responding to vacuum, so not turning 'off'??? And how could that much fuel get into the motor though? The tank is below the fuel rail so it shouldn't fill except with what is in the fuel rail and regulator etc and that is not that much - not enough to flood all your cylinders. It can't siphon from the tank unless its on a good hill slope.

And I can't see how you think having fuel everywhere is rings?

Why would you want to start and idle a rebuilt brand new engine - couldn't think of anything worse to bed the rings in!!

Wasn't really to bed the rings in just started it to make sure all was good every couple a days. Don't know if all the cylinders are flooded but number 4 for sure, I am thinking that the rings in four got scored and from the continuous cranking ,changing of injectors and running rich fuel seeped past those rings or maybe all and ended up in the oil sump. How else would fuel end up in the oil sump?

Also didn't say the fpr wasn't responding to vacuum, I said when you initially prime the system, turning the car to on without turning the key to ignition and the pump primes for that 5 second period, usually pressure stays in the fuel rail. I noticed that for my setup it does not. As soon as the pump has finished priming fuel pressure falls off.

Exactly what I want to know. How did so much fuel get into the oil and how do I solve this problem?

Take inj out and get tested.

Check the wiring at the injectors with a noid light and ensure they pulse when cranking.

If any of them stay on u have a wiring short or inj driver issue in the ecu.

You've had an engine freshly rebuilt.

You've been starting it every few days while it's running rich.

Two things: Rich cars wash the bores, fuel ends up in the sump.

Freshly rebuilt motors don't have rings bedded in, aiding fuel in seeping through.

You may be better off for safety's sake, pulling the motor, and putting fresh bearings in it.

If fuel isn't seeping out of the injectors once you prime it, then you either have a faulty one way check valve or no one way check valve at all.

You've had an engine freshly rebuilt.

You've been starting it every few days while it's running rich.

Two things: Rich cars wash the bores, fuel ends up in the sump.

Freshly rebuilt motors don't have rings bedded in, aiding fuel in seeping through.

You may be better off for safety's sake, pulling the motor, and putting fresh bearings in it.

If fuel isn't seeping out of the injectors once you prime it, then you either have a faulty one way check valve or no one way check valve at all.

No fuel is seeping out from what I can see now as I removed the fuel rail and primed the line. What do you mean by a faulty check valve, where is it located and how would it cause fuel to get in the sump?

No fuel is seeping out from what I can see now as I removed the fuel rail and primed the line. What do you mean by a faulty check valve, where is it located and how would it cause fuel to get in the sump?

The check valve won't let it into the sump.

It's what makes the pressure remain in the fuel rail when you turn the pump off.

It's normally just on the end of the fuel pump. If it's not working there is nothing to worry about, so long as you prime the rail before trying to start the car each time.

The fuel in the sump would be from you starting it every single time and letting it idle rich.

Pull the motor, put new bearings in. While you're at it, I highly advise new rings in as well. Then get your dump made, and just give it to a tuner so they can bed the rings on the dyno.

fuel seeped past those rings ended up in the oil sump. How else would fuel end up in the oil sump?

You have fuel running into a cylinder [as I understand it from cranking it all the time?] and if it doesn't burn then it will run down past the rings and into the sump. Rings aren't made to seal against fuel, if you've been idling it and its a new motor, I'd be worried. And with the leaking fuel washing the oil and bearings and anything else it gets to I'd be worried about that as well. Maybe a freshen up is needed, otherwise a long tow [or down hill] in gear with the spark plugs out and the fuel turned off using new oil????

The fuel in the sump would be from you starting it every single time and letting it idle rich.

Pull the motor, put new bearings in. While you're at it, I highly advise new rings in as well. Then get your dump made, and just give it to a tuner so they can bed the rings on the dyno.

Damn just what I didn't want to hear, I just spent all kinds of money getting the engine rebuilt. Can I just change the oil and tow it in gear as trident suggested?

Rings aren't made to seal against fuel, if you've been idling it and its a new motor, I'd be worried. And with the leaking fuel washing the oil and bearings and anything else it gets to I'd be worried about that as well. Maybe a freshen up is needed, otherwise a long tow [or down hill] in gear with the spark plugs out and the fuel turned off using new oil????

Then check for compression and ride it like that until I can afford a new rebuild or until I get a sign that the bearings or rings have let go. I am worried as hell , but really can't afford a rebuild again and I really need my ride.

The issue with if a bearing lets go, it's a full rebuild as metal will most likely be through the whole system (Head, turbos, blocks).

If you can catch it before they properly let go, you can avoid it all...

This is my personal thoughts on it after smashing a few motors...

Ok here goes again!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Replaced oil in sump and the old oil was basically gas, thin and brown, no body to it at all. After I replaced oil poured less than a teaspoon into each cylinder.

Now all the gas should have been out cause I changed the oil plus if compression was a prob the oil should bring it up a bit, at least that's my assumption. Unplugged the injectors, took the plugs out and cranked the car to get any fuel that was in the system out.

Ok good all that done put everything back to how it suppose to be except I didn't plug injectors in, Cranked the car and it bubbled like it was gonna start, but instantly died. So am thinking well injectors aren't in so it should start when I plug them in, so I plugged them in and gave it a crank............................... It did a little bubble then....................Nothing. I went through all the test again and everything passed. Have spark, fuel, timing and compression, but the car just will not start. Tried to get it started maybe three more times with no luck checked the oil again and would you believe it gas is in there again just like last time.

I am stumped is there anyway for gas to get in the sump besides draining past the rings, I mean for the amount of gas that seems to be in there, there is noway that much got in there from the 3 or 4 times I tried to start it. The injectors can not be dumping that much fuel.

Please Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Might be too much fuel which will = no start.

Change the inj values to a lower number and see if it starts. Write down what they are before changing the values

Yea did that have the values at like 30% for some high flowed stock injectors there value is 650cc and still nothing. Do you guys think that I burned the valves running it rich all that time and now that is my problem, valves burned so not seated properly therefore compression is off and car wont start and on top of that all that fuel may have messed up the rings as well.

Do burned valves stop a car from starting? Wouldn't it still start but just run horribly?

try a continuity test on the -ve line of the injectors to the earth/chassis - if that happens with the ECU off then you have a wiring issue

^^^ yep or even a simple noid light on the inj plugs to see if they are constanty on

Will do and keep you guys posted.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • So, that is it! It is a pretty expensive process with the ATF costing 50-100 per 5 litres, and a mechanic will probably charge plenty because they don't want to do it. Still, considering how dirty my fluid was at 120,000klm I think it would be worth doing more like every 80,000 to keep the trans happy, they are very expensive to replace. The job is not that hard if you have the specialist tools so you can save a bit of money and do it yourself!
    • OK, onto filling. So I don't really have any pics, but will describe the process as best I can. The USDM workshop manual also covers it from TM-285 onwards. First, make sure the drain plug (17mm) is snug. Not too tight yet because it is coming off again. Note it does have a copper washer that you could replace or anneal (heat up with a blow torch) to seal nicely. Remove the fill plug, which has an inhex (I think it was 6mm but didn't check). Then, screw in the fill fitting, making sure it has a suitable o-ring (mine came without but I think it is meant to be supplied). It is important that you only screw it in hand tight. I didn't get a good pic of it, but the fill plug leads to a tube about 70mm long inside the transmission. This sets the factory level for fluid in the trans (above the join line for the pan!) and will take about 3l to fill. You then need to connect your fluid pump to the fitting via a hose, and pump in whatever amount of fluid you removed (maybe 3 litres, in my case 7 litres). If you put in more than 3l, it will spill out when you remove the fitting, so do quickly and with a drain pan underneath. Once you have pumped in the required amount of clean ATF, you start the engine and run it for 3 minutes to let the fluid circulate. Don't run it longer and if possible check the fluid temp is under 40oC (Ecutek shows Auto Trans Fluid temp now, or you could use an infrared temp gun on the bottom of the pan). The manual stresses the bit about fluid temperature because it expands when hot an might result in an underfil. So from here, the factory manual says to do the "spill and fill" again, and I did. That is, put an oil pan under the drain plug and undo it with a 17mm spanner, then watch your expensive fluid fall back out again, you should get about 3 litres.  Then, put the drain plug back in, pump 3 litres back in through the fill plug with the fitting and pump, disconnect the fill fitting and replace the fill plug, start the car and run for another 3 minutes (making sure the temp is still under 40oC). The manual then asks for a 3rd "spill and fill" just like above. I also did that and so had put 13l in by now.  This time they want you to keep the engine running and run the transmission through R and D (I hope the wheels are still off the ground!) for a while, and allow the trans temp to get to 40oC, then engine off. Finally, back under the car and undo the fill plug to let the overfill drain out; it will stop running when fluid is at the top of the levelling tube. According to the factory, that is job done! Post that, I reconnected the fill fitting and pumped in an extra 0.5l. AMS says 1.5l overfill is safe, but I started with less to see how it goes, I will add another 1.0 litres later if I'm still not happy with the hot shifts.
    • OK, so regardless of whether you did Step 1 - Spill Step 2 - Trans pan removal Step 3 - TCM removal we are on to the clean and refill. First, have a good look at the oil pan. While you might see dirty oil and some carbony build up (I did), what you don't want to see is any metal particles on the magnets, or sparkles in the oil (thankfully not). Give it all a good clean, particularly the magnets, and put the new gasket on if you have one (or, just cross your fingers) Replacement of the Valve body (if you removed it) is the "reverse of assembly". Thread the electrical socket back up through the trans case, hold the valve body up and put in the bolts you removed, with the correct lengths in the correct locations Torque for the bolts in 8Nm only so I hope you have that torque wrench handy (it feels really loose). Plug the output speed sensor back in and clip the wiring into the 2 clips, replace the spring clip on the TCM socket and plug it back into the car loom. For the pan, the workshop manual states the following order: Again, the torque is 8Nm only.
    • One other thing to mention from my car before we reassemble and refill. Per that earlier diagram,   There should be 2x B length (40mm) and 6x C length (54mm). So I had incorrectly removed one extra bolt, which I assume was 40mm, but even so I have 4x B and 5x C.  Either, the factory made an assembly error (very unlikely), or someone had been in there before me. I vote for the latter because the TCM part number doesn't match my build date, I suspect the TCM was changed under warranty. This indeed led to much unbolting, rebolting, checking, measuring and swearing under the car.... In the end I left out 1x B bolt and put in a 54mm M6 bolt I already had to make sure it was all correct
    • A couple of notes about the TCM. Firstly, it is integrated into the valve body. If you need to replace the TCM for any reason you are following the procedure above The seppos say these fail all the time. I haven't seen or heard of one on here or locally, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Finally, Ecutek are now offering tuning for the 7 speed TCM. It is basically like ECU tuning in that you have to buy a license for the computer, and then known parameters can be reset. This is all very new and at the moment they are focussing on more aggressive gear holding in sports or sports+ mode, 2 gear launches for drag racing etc. It doesn't seem to affect shift speed like you can on some transmissions. Importantly for me, by having controllable shift points you can now raise the shift point as well as the ECU rev limit, together allowing it to rev a little higher when that is useful. In manual mode, my car shifts up automatically regardless of what I do which is good (because I don't have to worry about it) but bad (because I can't choose to rev a little higher when convenient).  TCMs can only be tuned from late 2016 onwards, and mine is apparently not one of those although the car build date was August 2016 (presumably a batch of ADM cars were done together, so this will probably be the situation for most ADM cars). No idea about JDM cars, and I'm looking into importing a later model valve body I can swap in. This is the top of my TCM A couple of numbers but no part number. Amayama can't find my specific car but it does say the following for Asia-RHD (interestingly, all out of stock....): So it looks like programable TCM are probably post September 2018 for "Asia RHD". When I read my part number out from Ecutek it was 31705-75X6D which did not match Amayama for my build date (Aug-2016)
×
×
  • Create New...