Which Car Has A "slow Down" Warning On The Dash?

[pistol-pete]

What I cant figure out is why so many people think so highly of them. Put the engineering of a McLaren up against a Ferrari & Ferrari gets thumped. Put the innovation of Lotus against them, same result. Put the build quility of a Porker up against them - same again. And so it goes. The only car maker with such a deeply flawed product is Bugatti. Ok maybe Maybach aswell but that is beside the point.

because ferraris are exciting and when spending that much on a car, youre not going to car that something else might be technically better.

F40 is the greatest car ever made imo, ive still got the model i got when i was 7.

[God_speed]

Can't vouch for how a Ferrari handles, but when you say they handle badly - really? Relative to other supercars? Or period?

I know kind of what you're referring to; Enzo himself used to say "you pay for the engine, the rest of the car I give you for free" or something like that; and unashamedly admitting his road cars only existed to fund his race cars. Models like the original Testarossa were apparently little more than a jaw dropping bodyshell existing merely to house an incredibly powerful engine. Handling was supposedly 'interesting' with the flat 12 being mounted quite high, etc etc.

I think Ferraris kind of reached a zenith around the late 90s (F355, 360 CS) and their new models are a bit too "techy". Yes they might be overrated, but surely when looked at 100% objectively with no romanticism, most Ferraris are still very, very good cars, if not absolutely exceptional ones?

Finally, everyone will have their own unique tastes and opinions, but surely when you're spending over, say AUD$200K, a great car is the one that makes the owner happy (even if that means the car relies on embellishments of brand-wank-factor, or a killer exhaust note). The Honda NSX might have been a brilliant car from a technical design standpoint, but unfortunately failed to excite and few people bought them relative to the 911 et al. It'll be interesting to see how the MP4-12C (massively dorky name) sells compared with the 458, as the McLaren is undoubtedly a brilliant technical achievement but doesn't have the brand cachet except amongst true enthusiasts or maybe Saudi F1 fans.

Edited July 5, 2011 by God_speed

[djr81]

because ferraris are exciting and when spending that much on a car, youre not going to car that something else might be technically better.

F40 is the greatest car ever made imo, ive still got the model i got when i was 7.

So what you are saying is you dont actually care how good or bad they are. Which isnt much of a foundation to claim the thing is the greatest car ever made.

[pistol-pete]

So what you are saying is you dont actually care how good or bad they are. Which isnt much of a foundation to claim the thing is the greatest car ever made.

if youd read my post i said that was my OPINION and if im spending that much on a car all imgoing to care about is the way it makes ME feel. nothing else.

[djr81]

Can't vouch for how a Ferrari handles, but when you say they handle badly - really? Relative to other supercars? Or period?

I know kind of what you're referring to; Enzo himself used to say "you pay for the engine, the rest of the car I give you for free" or something like that; and unashamedly admitting his road cars only existed to fund his race cars. Models like the original Testarossa were apparently little more than a jaw dropping bodyshell existing merely to house an incredibly powerful engine. Handling was supposedly 'interesting' with the flat 12 being mounted quite high, etc etc.

I think Ferraris kind of reached a zenith around the late 90s (F355, 360 CS) and their new models are a bit too "techy". Yes they might be overrated, but surely when looked at 100% objectively with no romanticism, most Ferraris are still very, very good cars, if not absolutely exceptional ones?

Finally, everyone will have their own unique tastes and opinions, but surely when you're spending over, say AUD$200K, a great car is the one that makes the owner happy (even if that means the car relies on embellishments of brand-wank-factor, or a killer exhaust note). The Honda NSX might have been a brilliant car from a technical design standpoint, but unfortunately failed to excite and few people bought them relative to the 911 et al. It'll be interesting to see how the MP4-12C (massively dorky name) sells compared with the 458, as the McLaren is undoubtedly a brilliant technical achievement but doesn't have the brand cachet except amongst true enthusiasts or maybe Saudi F1 fans.

It used to be that every time a new model was released the journalists would confess that the previous one handled terribly but this time it is different, honest.

I dont think you mean the original testarossa. I think you mean the mid 80's one. Which was horrible.

I was actually looking at an NSX on Sunday. You look at it and realise the thing is really well engineered. No comparison to, say a 328 or 348.

As for the McLaren I dont reckon it will sell. It doesnt have the styling to sell well - too conservative. Brilliant car but & there is nothing wrong with the McLaren brand.

My argument is if the brand factor is so important what the fk does a Ferrari Segway exist for? Or bathrobes with prancing horses on them. It is just commerce nowadays.

[God_speed]

It used to be that every time a new model was released the journalists would confess that the previous one handled terribly but this time it is different, honest.

I dont think you mean the original testarossa. I think you mean the mid 80's one. Which was horrible.

I was actually looking at an NSX on Sunday. You look at it and realise the thing is really well engineered. No comparison to, say a 328 or 348.

As for the McLaren I dont reckon it will sell. It doesnt have the styling to sell well - too conservative. Brilliant car but & there is nothing wrong with the McLaren brand.

My argument is if the brand factor is so important what the fk does a Ferrari Segway exist for? Or bathrobes with prancing horses on them. It is just commerce nowadays.

Yeah the 1984 (?) TR, not the 250 Testa Rossa which was gorgeous. the 250GTO and 250SWB would be up there as my all time favourite car designs.

Hmm yeah I think that Luca di Montezemolo in taking over from Enzo has wisely taken Ferrari in a direction where the cars are much more useable and credible from a chassis, packaging, and reliability (to an extent) standpoint.

Enzo also said that Ferrari would never advertise. The Shell/Ferrari commercial of about 2008 (?) is an example of brilliant marketing while still respecting the marque IMO, but all that merchandising junk is a real shame. The Ferrari World in Abu Dhabi also looks like a massive sellout.

Good point on the journos; I do recall reading reviews on the F355 which said it was not so much a facelift of the 348 as a completely new car in terms of its handling; the 360 came out and they said it was a revolution compared to the F355; when the F430 came out they said the 360 was actually quite tricky at the limit and that the F355 was arguably better handling than the 360, now the 458 has come out and made the F430 feel completely obselete, etc.

Interestingly though, I see a bit of a parallel with GT-Rs in a way. Some reviews I've read recently of the R34 GT-R (Evo UK) still place it highly as a driver's car, but say that it feels decidedly out of date, as if it doesn't quite match the hype. The R34 was an evolution of the R33, and the 33 of the 32. A Wheels article (I know, I know) compared the three modern GT-Rs to the R35 and again came to the conclusion that the earlier GT-Rs didn't quite impress like they expected. There's a definite mystique (to put it nicely) or hype (to put it bluntly) about some brands and some models which tends to colour people's perceptions of the true merit of a car, I guess.

What do you think?

[djr81]

Yeah the 1984 (?) TR, not the 250 Testa Rossa which was gorgeous. the 250GTO and 250SWB would be up there as my all time favourite car designs.

Hmm yeah I think that Luca di Montezemolo in taking over from Enzo has wisely taken Ferrari in a direction where the cars are much more useable and credible from a chassis, packaging, and reliability (to an extent) standpoint.

Enzo also said that Ferrari would never advertise. The Shell/Ferrari commercial of about 2008 (?) is an example of brilliant marketing while still respecting the marque IMO, but all that merchandising junk is a real shame. The Ferrari World in Abu Dhabi also looks like a massive sellout.

Good point on the journos; I do recall reading reviews on the F355 which said it was not so much a facelift of the 348 as a completely new car in terms of its handling; the 360 came out and they said it was a revolution compared to the F355; when the F430 came out they said the 360 was actually quite tricky at the limit and that the F355 was arguably better handling than the 360, now the 458 has come out and made the F430 feel completely obselete, etc.

Interestingly though, I see a bit of a parallel with GT-Rs in a way. Some reviews I've read recently of the R34 GT-R (Evo UK) still place it highly as a driver's car, but say that it feels decidedly out of date, as if it doesn't quite match the hype. The R34 was an evolution of the R33, and the 33 of the 32. A Wheels article (I know, I know) compared the three modern GT-Rs to the R35 and again came to the conclusion that the earlier GT-Rs didn't quite impress like they expected. There's a definite mystique (to put it nicely) or hype (to put it bluntly) about some brands and some models which tends to colour people's perceptions of the true merit of a car, I guess.

What do you think?

Cant argue with any of that.

In its day the R32 was head and shoulders above everything else. Now it is largely just another out of date car. New technology and engineering practices will always best the old way of doing things. Which doesnt mean the old school stuff is useless by any means. I have an R32 R because 1. I love the things, particularly the engineering & 2 Because they can still be made competitive.

Mystique/hype etc is fine. But when have you ever seen a Ferrari driven hard? The last lot I saw en mass was at the Perth Festical of Speed. The F40 on display looked like it had never been driven. Those on the track were driven in the same way that my Nanna used to drive. In contrast the NSX I was looking at on the weekend had over 100,000kms on the clock.

[God_speed]

Looks like a nice example of an F40. From memory they made about 1,300 F40s, only about 700 F50s and 349 Enzos. So not exactly ultra-rare, but still a collectible. I guess at some point the car's rarity dictates a certain level of care and mollycoddling. But even Terry Ashwood lets his Winfield GTR (one of a kind) out on the track for a proper thrash on a regular basis.

What I don't understand is why on earth there are so many auto NSXs. 8,000rpm red line with VTEC with maximum torque at about 5,000 rpm, coupled to a four speed auto transmission, in the days then I think only Porsche had a tiptronic auto tranny.

You definitely don't see a Ferrari driven in anger very often. It was good to see the way my boss drove his car, a DB7 Vantage - driven every day, frequently getting the tail out etc. I say "was" because he pranged it about a month ago.

Edited July 5, 2011 by God_speed

[Cowboy1600]

Bah, Ferrari's are something you own when you want to be someone. Lambo's are what you own when you are someone.

f**k it, who am I kidding, I'm a no one. I'd own an F40 in a heartbeat. Shitty quality be damned. As was said earlier, you either get it or you don't. Laptimes aren't what owning something like an F40 is about.

Don't believe me? Stand next to one as it takes off from the lights at full song. If the sound, sight and 2 foot flames on gear change don't impress you, then I guess cars just really aren't your thing.

[God_speed]

This video clip got me into Jamiroquai, having two of my favourite Ferraris and some great tunes

[pistol-pete]

You definitely don't see a Ferrari driven in anger very often.

i was cruising next to an f430 one day. it was blacked out, had a loud exhaust and just generally looked tough. as the next set of lights went amber, he dropped it back two cogs and floored it through the red.

needless to say, i had to pull over to change my pants.

[God_speed]

Bah, Ferrari's are something you own when you want to be someone. Lambo's are what you own when you are someone.

Don't believe me? Stand next to one as it takes off from the lights at full song. If the sound, sight and 2 foot flames on gear change don't impress you, then I guess cars just really aren't your thing.

Well said. By the way I'd heard that saying before from someone. I'm sure it helps to stroke the ego of the guys who've taken out a loan at 12% to scrape it together to buy a second hand Gallardo.

[iplen]

I am not going to pretend to have any experience driving any Ferrari, but I am yet to see/read a test of an F40 that has said anything other than they are one of the greatest drivers cars of all time. As for the Carbon chassis, bare in mind the first carbon tub in F1 had only happened 5 years prior to the F40, and would not be part of a road car for another 5 years, even then in the massively expensive/unsuccesful Mclaren F1 (Yes it has it's own place in history, and it took a W16 with 4 turbos to beat it). To me the R33 GTR is a better car than the R32 in MANY ways, but the fact that the R32 is a little more of a mongrel is part of the appeal (and reason I bought it). The F40 takes this much further, it is badly built, it is uncomfortable, but I get the impression when you get it right there is nothing comes close. Porkas to me are just proof that engineers can overcome physics, and that Ze Germans are too stubborn to just fix the problem.

That's my opinion..

[God_speed]

Great video thanks Ian for linking. I've got the mag that goes with it (June 2011 I think). I think Evo UK are at the top of the pile as far as car journos go.

[Cowboy1600]

Well said. By the way I'd heard that saying before from someone. I'm sure it helps to stroke the ego of the guys who've taken out a loan at 12% to scrape it together to buy a second hand Gallardo.

It was one F. Sinatra. A man of impeccible taste and one most qualified to discuss such matters.

If a bank would lend me the spoondooly to buy a Murcie, even @12%, I'd do it. I couldn't think of a higher pinnacle in life. For a car nut, owning something like that would mean I win.

[GT-R32]

This video clip got me into Jamiroquai, having two of my favourite Ferraris and some great tunes

The F355 was for sale recently (and might still be).

[Peter89]

IMO the F40 is probably one of the few true supercars.

If I could have any car, it would be no doubt the F40.

I love the 458 but nothing comes close to the F40.