Plugs For Rb20 On E85

[nisskid]

hey guys, have an RB20 tuned on E85 to 250rwkw on 18psi, it's a track car, but it seems to be fouling the plugs every few track days. some come out covered in carbon, some ive pulled out before that almost looked like water corrosion a bit with what looks like rust on the bottom of the thread. they are BCPR6E's gapped down to .7mm

wondering if it's worth changing the heat range for these now i'm running E85, or is the issue possibly in the ignition system which is causing them to not ignite properly, which might be causing the fouling? cold start is irrelevant, as long as she's on song when it's warmed up and ready to go.

i've read a few threads, but the main one on the topic of plugs with e85 turned into a shit fight about e85 itself.

cheers

[zebra]

Are you sure its carbon (from fuel) and not oil?

Ethanol is quite clean burning...and with only 15(ish)% gasoline there shouldn't be much carbon

[nisskid]

it's dry/matte and comes off quite easily, not sure if there's a way burning oil can give that effect, but i just assume carbon. it only really appeared on 2-3 of the plugs, but that itself would explain the slight miss i was getting after a few events.

[zebra]

Kinda weird...how fresh is the ignition system, does it run really rich at idle/cold/hot etc?

You dont have a pic of the plugs by any chance?

[nisskid]

ignition system from the coilpacks to plug is fresh, running AU coilpacks with leads, probably should have mentioned that haha. coilpacks are brand new, leads are new etc etc. was gonna measure for voltage drop, but haven't had time.

[Zorro]

The part number on those plugs, is that BCPR6E or BCPR6ES ? (ie: did you put the apostrophe "s" after for plural or was that part of the part number?)

The reason i ask is that they are different plugs & no "s" is not the right projection for an rb!

[Simon-S14]

as mentioned.. there is vertually zero carbon build up in an e85 fuelled engine. will be clean as a whistle inside. however if its rich and you do a lot of cold starts it will have a lot of condensation/moisture build up leading to the corrosion you see

[Zorro]

Ethanol is hydrophilic, which basically means that its best friends with water; the two love to hang out and corrode sh!t.

[nisskid]

The part number on those plugs, is that BCPR6E or BCPR6ES ? (ie: did you put the apostrophe "s" after for plural or was that part of the part number?)

The reason i ask is that they are different plugs & no "s" is not the right projection for an rb!

good call mate, they were 6E's, just bought some 6ES's, will probably chuck them in tomorrow, i doubt it'll do much whilst still fresh, but if anything hopefully they don't foul up as quick. how does it affect the RB's? is there all that much difference between the V and the flat faced one?

[WYTSKY]

I used to use bcpr6e, on 230rwkw was fine, but 260+ they were missing abit, I have been using bcrp7es and no fouling at all. obviously not on e85 but thought I would try to help

[Rekin]

The part number on those plugs, is that BCPR6E or BCPR6ES ? (ie: did you put the apostrophe "s" after for plural or was that part of the part number?)

The reason i ask is that they are different plugs & no "s" is not the right projection for an rb!

ermmm...any info to back this claim up?

BCPR6ES = Standard electrode

BCPR6E = V-groove electrode. NGK claims Improved ignitability due to sparking at periphery of the electrode.

250kw, I would go 7's. As mentioned on NGK website:

============

Example Take a Holden engine which as standard uses a BPR 5ES spark plug. (The heat range for this spark plug is 5, please refer to our part number identification for further information) If a customer were to install a turbocharger, intercooler and exhaust system to this vehicle, it would be suggested to start with a spark plug with a 7 heat range (BPR 7ES) to be on the safe side. The customer would then need to perform some road testing,

* firstly applying half throttle

* then inspecting the plugs,

* ¾ throttle then again inspecting the plugs

* and eventually full throttle.

At any stage of inspection if the plugs upon removal are very clean and white along the insulator nose this would indicate that the spark plugs are reaching their upper temperature threshold and as such obviously may not withstanding the temperature at full throttle. Fouling a set of spark plugs is very cheap compared to the cost of the engine modifications performed and insignificant compared to the amount of research and design that goes into producing the engine by a vehicle manufacturer.

==========

[nisskid]

the question is, why do they still use the standard ones if the V's are better? they are identical prices, so makes me wonder why they wouldn't just make it redundant.

[Zorro]

Nice cut n paste rekin, anyway.... Proof, if you have em on the shelf or next time you are at your local parts store, get them to put all three (E, ES, EY) on the counter and look at them, all the proof you need!!! (& for the hell of it get a BKR plug aswell)

BCPR#E is not the same as a BCPR#EY, yes both are v-groove (E used to be solid), but there is a projection difference (quite significantly shorter in E, ie: will foul quicker in an RB)!

Simply looking at a website or catalogue doesnt make you a professional parts interpreter, a little knowledge can be dangerous!

Why is there a solid 's' and a v-groove 'y', well not really sure why solid hasnt been made redundant yet, as the v-groove is superior & the same price, but many car makers still recommend solids, so eh!

[Zorro]

Here i saved you the trouble:

E vs EY

CP vs K

[nisskid]

im confused, are you saying i should use E or EY?

[Zorro]

EY

& id use heatrange7 for what your doing rather than 6.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Zorro

[kitto]

CP vs K

The BKR is shorter! Doesn't this mean that the coil pack wont be making as good a connection as the longer CPR? As the BKR plug will be sitting down lower in the valley.

The BKR would be fine with a set of external coil packs with ignition leads. But if your using old coil packs especially with worn out graphite electrodes, there wont be too much of a good connection.

Edited November 6, 2011 by kitto

[Simon-S14]

yeah the BKR's are used in SR's although you can use the BCP in there and the coilpack makes a much firmer contact with it.

[STATUS]

tune problem... E85 on that setup should be fine with 8's.... we run sevens or eights no issues.