Intercooler Question

[kikka]

Gday everyone.

I am thinking of buying a new intercooler for my r33.

Now just wondering which is better the bar and plate or tube and finn intercooler.

my car has a litte intercooler on it at the moment, and was wondering if it would make much differance?

Any help would be great thanks guys.

Lance

[zebra]

General rule of thumb.

bar and plate cools better

tube and fin flow better

[kikka]

Thanks.

Now another question.

I want to do a lot of upgrades to my car over time.

So if i was to buy a intercooler rated at 1000hp, would it still work well before I get to big hoursepower?

Or should I just buy 1 that is good for 400hp for now? ( I would rather just buy it once if I can).

Thanks

Lance

[hypergear]

The cheap coolers on ebay works fine. How ever the length of the cooling piping makes a big difference in turbo response. So I would get a generic cooler then make some custom piping to suit it.

[kikka]

Cool.

So is it better to have shorter piping or longer piping?

The turbo for the moment is standard.

But I am looking at getting a top mount manifold and turbo in the near future.

Also with the piping could I use 3inch exaust pipe with manderial bends or will it not be able to handle the pressure?

Also is it better to have steel bends or are the silicon cuplings just as good?

Thanks Again.

Lance

[(OO)SKYLINE(OO)]

^^ Shorter piping the better, less time for the air to get from the turbo to the intercooler to the inlet plenum.

The quicker the air gets into the engine the more responsive it is.

What you want to use the car for?

Drag?

Circuit?

If for drag racing, use Tube and Fin for better flow as you spend less time on the track / drag strip.

So you'd want as much air as possible in a short amount of time.

Bar and Plate will be better suited to Circuit as you'd spend more time on the track.

Temps can rise rapidly so you'd want the best cooling.

[GTScotT]

pipe is pipe, its the material you use that counts. use stainless not mild steel..

HOWEVER personally i would use an off the shelf cross flow kit... there will be very little difference in eliminating the crossover pipe (the one with the blowoff on it) but you could do that if you wanted to.

look up a 'HKS fmic' kit to see what they look like when eliminating that crossover pipe.. thats the shortest method you could use without going to a forward facing plenum.

again i wouldnt bother..

[Room42]

With a standard R33 turbo, I went from a r34 sidemount to a 600x300x100 bar and plate frontmount. There was an immediate 2 psi increase at the manifold. The response remained identical. The sidemount used to get too hot to touch. The frontmount barely got warm on the hot side and remained cold on the outlet.

Even now after swapping the turbo to a gt3582r running 20+ psi the frontmount still barely gets warm on the hotside and remains cold on the outlet.

After I got everything sorted the silicone bends and joiners stay put and don't burst.

The piping and the cooler came in at about $500 and I put it in myself.

I have 2.5 inch piping. The piping is made from mandrel bent aluminium.

[kikka]

Is it normal to have smaller piping or would it be better to 3 inch like the inlets of the intercooler?

If you have a photo of your setup that would be great.

I have found a few piping kits but not sure about this cross pipe that you talk about.

I have a blow off valve already(on the car) and would still like to use it.

Do most piping kits accomodate for bov's??

[zebra]

Just buy a kit and be done with it

[Room42]

Is it normal to have smaller piping or would it be better to 3 inch like the inlets of the intercooler?

If you have a photo of your setup that would be great.

I have found a few piping kits but not sure about this cross pipe that you talk about.

I have a blow off valve already(on the car) and would still like to use it.

Do most piping kits accomodate for bov's??

Like Zebra says there are kits out there. You can buy a hard piping kit from ebay for about $250. You still use the standard 'J' pipe so you keep your stock bov valve. Which is actually called a recirculation valve but whatever.

If you want to keep some of your intake setup (bov, whatever) then you may need to cut some of your existing or new piping up. It is piss easy to do. Make sure you get a lip rolled into the end of your pipes if you cut them otherwise the pipes will 'pop' apart from the silicone joiners.

Majority of people have 2.5inch piping with 3 inch outlets on the intercooler. I know a guy with 3 inch piping on his car. It also pulls a skid at 200kph on 265's. I think there are plenty more things to do before using 3 inch intercooler piping. Maybe when your turbo outlet is 3 inch then think about it.

This is identical to the kit I got. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/POWER-SPIRIT-INTERCOOLER-PIPING-KIT-NISSAN-SKYLINE-R33-RB25DET-GTST-/190598512860?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c608e80dc#ht_2399wt_954

[kikka]

thanks guys for all of your input.

[zebra]

Spend more and buy a jap kit. So much easier to fit and fit better all around

Plus you can have some jdm goodies on your car

[Room42]

Spend more and buy a jap kit. So much easier to fit and fit better all around

Plus you can have some jdm goodies on your car

I believe it's time to say "pfffft".

Why spend more when you can spend less for the same result? For all the stuff I read on here about ill fitting kits mine fit perfectly the first time. How easy do you need it to be? I put it on in a couple of hours with a mate. That included hole cutting and bumper grinding.

Save the extra few hundred and spend it on fuel. You will need it for all the "testing" you will have to do on your new kit.

Or you can spend double for a sprayed on stencil...

[wolverine]

The JDM stuff pretty much always fits. Not all buck-choy brand stuff does fit first go and that can cost you time/money if you aren't born with a welding rod in your mouth or a decent workshop.

On response with longer piping, it is hard to argue with the theory that longer piping hurts response but 5 years ago I had this same discussion with the guys at Plazamaman and they are adamant that turbos are very capable of pumping large amounts of air very quickly, the difference in pipe lengths is far less important than controlling the flow of air inside the core so that maximum exchange vs pressure drop is optimised.

I am a keyboard warrior so just sticking this out there.

[koe]

The JDM stuff pretty much always fits. Not all buck-choy brand stuff does fit first go and that can cost you time/money if you aren't born with a welding rod in your mouth or a decent workshop.

On response with longer piping, it is hard to argue with the theory that longer piping hurts response but 5 years ago I had this same discussion with the guys at Plazamaman and they are adamant that turbos are very capable of pumping large amounts of air very quickly, the difference in pipe lengths is far less important than controlling the flow of air inside the core so that maximum exchange vs pressure drop is optimised.

I am a keyboard warrior so just sticking this out there.

[koe]

Just use 3" aluminum pipes.not the eBay ones.

Tube and fin allows the air to reach the radiator which in street cars works best.

Just make sure you fmic is at least 80mm + thickness

You should have no problem running 80 mm hard pipes just make sure you use t bolt type clamps and good couplers.

I have 90mm to the intake and 80 mm from the turbo

Good bov is also a good idea.

If you buy those china fmic make sure you have it check for leaks prior to installing.

Edited November 14, 2011 by koe

[Room42]

Like I said, I noticed no difference in response when going from the sidemount to the frontmount. There is a big difference between what people think will happen and what actually happens. Its like saying that a drop in the ocean makes a difference. Sure it makes a difference but is so small that it isn't noticed. Big piping and frontmounts make bugger all difference to response.

Tube and fin will let more air through however once again it is not something to even consider. I don't use a fan shroud (I broke it accidentally), and have a 100mm thick bar and plate core in front of my stock radiator. I never have heating issues even in traffic on a 30 degree day.

Realistically any frontmount will be better than a sidemount. It is very unlikely that the new cooler will be insufficient whatever the outcome.

I haven't found any bolton "kits" out there that are in 3 inch piping. Everything is in 2.5 inch. Which is more than ample. Based on the novice questions it seems the op needs a kit at this stage. It is not a hard or technical upgrade to accomplish.

We behind the keyboard can only do so much. So, OP, go buy a intercooler kit. NOW!!!

P.s I worked with a bloke who manufactures radiators and intercoolers and he told me that even if you had a hole in your intercooler 1mm across it wouldn't be measurable as a pressure drop. Don't worry about getting it tested for leaks. A visual inspection will be fine.

[zebra]

Tube and fin will let more air through however once again it is not something to even consider. I don't use a fan shroud (I broke it accidentally), and have a 100mm thick bar and plate core in front of my stock radiator. I never have heating issues even in traffic on a 30 degree day.

Realistically any frontmount will be better than a sidemount. It is very unlikely that the new cooler will be insufficient whatever the outcome.

I haven't found any bolton "kits" out there that are in 3 inch piping. Everything is in 2.5 inch. Which is more than ample. Based on the novice questions it seems the op needs a kit at this stage. It is not a hard or technical upgrade to accomplish.

Its not sitting in traffic that is the issue, its pounding a track lap after lap where they cause issues, ask any GTR owner with a 100mm core who does track work....most of them have gone back to the standard intercooler so the motors aren't overheating after 2 laps.

The HPI kit for my Soarer is 2 1/2 hot side and 3" cool side, the Greddy and HKS kits are the same, must be a reason for it...but I doubt unless I am trying for 1200hp will I find out why lol

[kikka]

Ok thanks for the info.

I would like to say that i have a lot experance in cars(naturaly asperated ones, holden 1 tonners and a rfew diff v8's)

So I know the basics around cars.

But never owened a turbo car.

I was just asking some questions.

So i can weld and i have a workshop, so no big dramas for making a piping kit just wondering.

I didnt mean to ask noobish or simple questions.

Thanks for all your imput guys.

Lance